Israeli Hostages returned

[Workingzombie]

Peace, for the time being. 20 Israeli hostages returned in exchange for 2000 Palestinians.

https://apnews.com/live/israel-hamas-updates-10-13-2025

Don't expect Trump to get a Nobel peace prize. You have to be Obama doing absolutely nothing to earn one.

[Onepoint]

That's great, and a good way to begin a cease fire.  I think everyone understands its just a lull, Israel cannot abide Hamas existing and most of the Muslim world can't abide them.  Sadly Hamas took 270 something 2 years ago and 20 come home.  That's Stalinist Russia or Mao ratios for anyone keeping score.  But just remember, it's only Israel who commits genocide, everyone else just has some sporadic violence, civil unrest or  group oppression.

Good for Trump.  Even though we had no direct hand in this, he did pressure through coercion and bribery both Israel and Qatar, who was one of the main brokers of the deal to come to terms. That was even after Israel bombed Qatar trying to kill Hamas leadership while in Qatar negotiating.  I figured at that point Hamas was done entertaining negotiations.  But I suppose the reality was they were on the brink of annihilation as Israel was not stopping, and the hiding among civilian population was no longer a shield as it had been, so had little choice but allow some intercession on their behalf, because it was becoming clear the Muslim world was not going to come and save Palestine and they realized they were all going be martyrs instead.  Nothing moves leadership more than suffering the fate of those they oversee.

In contrast, Biden admin had over a year to work on that but was more concerned trying to support Hamas.

As far as the Nobel goes, who cares, its so corrupted with wokeness and political correctness its means nothing anymore.  It may stroke Trumps ego, but has no real meaning for just about everyone else who doesn't work for the govt.  Its like the Oscars for wokeness now.

[thresher_593]

As long as people are chanting "From the river to the sea" Israel won't be able to lay down it's arms.

Let's see where we're at in 9 months.

[Workingzombie]

Hopefully the peace will last a while, if for no other reason how Israel demonstrated its resolve to keep the conflict going until either the hostages were released or the Hamas were eliminated.  I take no pleasure in the suffering of the Palestinians, and even begin to question Israel's persistence to continue the conflict. But I do understand that force is the only thing the Palestinians/Hamas understand. I don't think they never expected this level of retribution, despite their fanatical willingness to die to hurt Israel. Perhaps it will traumatize the current generation at least to consider the price they will pay for future terrorist incursions into Israel. I sure hope Israel will hardened its border security as well, and sack those who failed to keep watch on October 7th.

[Onepoint]

They had border security, what they did not expect was a full scale mass force invasion that overwhelmed it.  Mossad either dropped the ball or let it happen which is equally plausible.  They also underestimated what such an attack would mean by disarming citizens at large and letting only sanctioned militias and village security forces geared to finding and stopping one offs like suicide bombers handle the defense of border villages. 

Israel is not innocent nor justified in all they do, they have repeatedly fired on civilians, but they get away with it because Hamas militants as standard practice uses them for concealing movement and/ or outright cover as human shields. I stand with Israel as far as wanting Hamas eradicated, just maybe not to the extent of killing every Palestinian to get that done.  At some point everyone, not just Palestinians, has to make a conscious choice of what they will join with, and that can have dire consequence either way sometimes.

[thresher_593]

The 10/7 attackers actually used several ultralight aircraft and paragliders to evade the border defenses.
They hauled a lot of the attackers thru the fences in buses/trucks that just drove thru the chain link.
The attack was launched on a Hebrew holiday, Simchat Torah which is part of the 7 day long Sukhot holiday.
Sort of like some guys from the East attacked us at Pearl Harbor on a Sunday morning.
There were a few frontier settlements that held out because the attackers skirted them as too tough to defeat easily. They went went for the soft targets.

Maybe would have been a little different outcome if Israeli citizens were allowed to have guns.

[JimmyJamesKY]

I'm glad to hear any good news coming out of that war.  Qatar is getting some training space in Idaho for their trouble.  Just cost them an airliner and some boot licking.  I hope that we train them to land this time.  The last time we trained Arabs on flying aircraft on American soil, it didn't work out so well.

I think the Qataris got a pretty good deal for their 747, soon to be Air Force One.  Trump is giving what almost sounds like NATO security guarantees to Qatar, stating that an attack on Qatar would be seen as a threat to the security of the United States:

President Trump signed an executive order last month "assuring the security of the state of Qatar," following Israel's decision to carry out a military strike in Qatar's capital city of Doha, where the vast majority of Qataris live. "The United States shall regard any armed attack on the territory, sovereignty, or critical infrastructure of the State of Qatar as a threat to the peace and security of the United States," the executive order reads.

The Qataris are in for a rude awakening if they think we will side with them against Israel, should Bibi decide to drop a bomb or five on Qatari soil.

Trump should get the Nobel Peace Prize for successfully conquering Portland, L.A. and hopefully Memphis soon.  Obama got that damn prize without invading a single American city. 

[Workingzombie]

  They also underestimated what such an attack would mean by disarming citizens at large and letting only sanctioned militias and village security forces geared to finding and stopping one offs like suicide bombers handle the defense of border villages. 

I don't understand how Israel, surrounded by enemies, would hinder or not encourage all its citizens to seriously own and train with private firearms. I hope they shed themselves of that naive Liberal mindset. That's just absolutely insane policy.

[Onepoint]

JimmyJamesKY

The Qataris are in for a rude awakening if they think we will side with them against Israel, should Bibi decide to drop a bomb or five on Qatari soil.

I think it's likely less that than propping up the royal families against their own fundamentalist anti west insurgencies since Bibi already did that, that and keeping Iran at bay s the other gulf states have been doing allying with us. 

We do have a major airbase there that isn't going anywhere despite Trumps America 1st rhetoric, but I do have to wonder why they need their own hangars and support at Mountain Home AFB, when their entire F15 fleet is about 36 planes, and most of them will stay there, not here at any one time. I suspect it's the usual plausible cover for something more than simple F15E training.

[Onepoint]

Unfortunately but to no ones surprise the "peace" lasted maybe a week.  Pro Israel side claims Hamas launched attacks, and now claim they did not turn over all the hostages.  Anti Israel side claims they are proceeding with the genocide of Gazans.

 I am firmly in neither camp, there are no innocents or good guys in that fight, too much documented atrocity from both.  I do know that if Oct 7 was just a rebellion against oppression like the pro Palestinians claim, they would not have taken hostages and raped and slaughtered wholesale as they swept through their break out.   The world will not miss Hamas if its eradicated.

[thresher_593]

Was it over optimistic to expect that people that have slaughtered each other for centuries would simply lay down their arms and become friends just because people they've never seen signed a piece of paper they've never read?

I suspect there will be continued infractions from both parties.

As I said before, let's see where they're at in 9 months.

[Danjal]

Was it over optimistic to expect that people that have slaughtered each other for centuries would simply lay down their arms and become friends just because people they've never seen signed a piece of paper they've never read?

I suspect there will be continued infractions from both parties.

As I said before, let's see where they're at in 9 months.

I said in another thread it wouldn't last 6 months. Apparently it's an on and off peace "deal" at the present moment. I'm assuming once the hostages and bodies are being brokered they'll play peace. After that I'm expecting an all out war.