Author Topic: Addicted to Anti Depressants  (Read 2263 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

JimmyJamesKY

  • Board Supporter
  • SKS Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3840
  • Sign says long-haired freaky people may now apply.
Addicted to Anti Depressants
« on: May 09, 2021, 01:31:45 PM »
A member of my family has major insomnia.  He can't sleep more than a couple of hours a day, so he asked his doctor for a sleeping pill, but his doctor said those are habit forming, take these instead, and prescribed Remeron, an anti depressant.  The patient asked why an AD and not just a sleeping pill, he said sleeping pills are habit forming, and while this was an AD, it has a side effect that makes you sleepy.  Family member trusts the doctor, and starts the ADs.

A few months later, the ADs stopped working, so the doc increases the dose.  A few months after that, the ADs stop helping for sleep.  Turns out, your body adjusts to side effects once you get used to the medication.

Family member returns to the doctor, and askes for help.  The doctor recommended a different form of AD, and the patient refused, and said just give me a pill to treat the insomnia, and not something designed for something else.  Doctor gives a big speech about habit forming, makes my family member sign a waiver, and prescribes Lunesta.  He says STOP taking the AD START taking Lunesta.

Well, the Lunesta helps him sleep, but he woke up Thursday in a bad mood.  He couldn't stand to be around his wife, couldn't stand his kids, and put the dog out in the yard. 

After a few days, he realized this was not just being in a bad mood.  He talked to my mother, who is a retired nurse and she was furious that the doctor said to STOP taking Remeron.  She said it has to be titrated (weened down) for months first, or you will have AD discontinuation syndrome, which is a PC way of saying withdrawal  symptoms.

The doctors can't say "withdrawal symptoms" because they are pushing ADs as a non habit forming alternative to pretty much everything apparently.  Or maybe junkies just have "Heroin Discontinue Syndrome."

At any rate, the family member has just resigned himself taking ADs again and weening down slowly.  I looked up what he was taking online, and it's well known that it's majorly addictive, and takes months to ween off of.  Abruptly stopping causes 2 weeks to 2 months of severe "Discontinue Syndrome" characterized by anger and irritability. 

My question is, how much and how often are these being prescribed?  They are being prescribed "off label" for insomnia, anxiety and whatever else is the opposite of the many side effects they have. If the SHTH and 50% of society is off their meds, it will be a Zombie Apocalypes.
Good friends will lend a hand, great friends will grab a leg....

Filroy77

  • Board Supporter
  • SKS Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 5596
  • Power to the People!
    • Baby Lives Matter
Re: Addicted to Anti Depressants
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2021, 02:01:16 PM »
First, I’m sorry for your family member but glad that they were smart enough to know better than the quack Er doc.

This sounds like a continuation of everything that’s going on. Big pharma has wanted everybody on drugs for a long time. The prescription for America?
How can these people say such lies? Because lying is not an issue when truth is not a value. Dennis Prager

Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

JimmyJamesKY

  • Board Supporter
  • SKS Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3840
  • Sign says long-haired freaky people may now apply.
Re: Addicted to Anti Depressants
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2021, 04:00:34 PM »
This is his family doctor, not ER.  Prescribed 3 different ADs over a 2 year period, NONE of them for depression.

Doctor tried prescribing a 4th one but the person refused.

Apparently anti-depressants are the non habit forming answer to all life's problems. 

Quote
Typical symptoms of antidepressant discontinuation syndrome include flu-like symptoms, insomnia, nausea, imbalance, sensory disturbances, and hyperarousal. These symptoms usually are mild, last one to two weeks, and are rapidly extinguished with reinstitution of antidepressant medication.

Anti depressants are not habit forming, so long as you never stop taking them.  The American Medical industry is not to be trusted, period.
Good friends will lend a hand, great friends will grab a leg....

JimmyJamesKY

  • Board Supporter
  • SKS Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3840
  • Sign says long-haired freaky people may now apply.
Re: Addicted to Anti Depressants
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2021, 05:28:48 PM »
The way "off label" prescribing works is like this:

Say you design a pill for heartburn, but it gives you major diarrhea and doesn't treat heartburn.  Rather than go back to the drawing board and design a better pill for heartburn that doesn't give you diarrhea, you just market the pill to doctors as a treatment for constipation.

I know in Kentucky (and pretty much the whole USA) many folks are just trying to get Xanax and Oxycontin from the doc, and the doctors see every patient through this lens.  They may prescribe you things that are ineffective and loaded with negative side effects, but at least you won't try to sell it on the street. . .

It wasn't too long ago that doctors were marketing Oxycontin as a less addictive alternative to Percocet.  Turns out, it wasn't the Tylenol in the Percocet that made it addictive, it was the Oxycodone.  I know hindsight is 20/20, and there was no way the doctors could have known that concentrating high doses of opioids in a tiny pill addicts could crush up and snort would be a bad idea.  :roll:

The bottom line is, your doctor can tell you whatever he wants to make a sale for Big Pharma.  I'm sure there is tons of money to be made prescribing anti depressants that you can never stop taking.

I wonder how many mass shooters were taking "anti" depressants?  My guess would be a few, but how could doctors know prescribing a pill that puts you in a rage when you stop taking it would be detriment to society?
Good friends will lend a hand, great friends will grab a leg....

Filroy77

  • Board Supporter
  • SKS Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 5596
  • Power to the People!
    • Baby Lives Matter
Re: Addicted to Anti Depressants
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2021, 08:30:44 PM »
This is his family doctor, not ER.  Prescribed 3 different ADs over a 2 year period, NONE of them for depression.

Doctor tried prescribing a 4th one but the person refused.

Apparently anti-depressants are the non habit forming answer to all life's problems. 

Quote
Typical symptoms of antidepressant discontinuation syndrome include flu-like symptoms, insomnia, nausea, imbalance, sensory disturbances, and hyperarousal. These symptoms usually are mild, last one to two weeks, and are rapidly extinguished with reinstitution of antidepressant medication.

Anti depressants are not habit forming, so long as you never stop taking them.  The American Medical industry is not to be trusted, period.

Sorry I meant er not ER.

Good point about mass shooters.
How can these people say such lies? Because lying is not an issue when truth is not a value. Dennis Prager

Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

Steve20

  • SKS Newbie
  • Posts: 34
Re: Addicted to Anti Depressants
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2021, 08:57:32 PM »
This is his family doctor, not ER.  Prescribed 3 different ADs over a 2 year period, NONE of them for depression.

Doctor tried prescribing a 4th one but the person refused.

Apparently anti-depressants are the non habit forming answer to all life's problems. 

Quote
Typical symptoms of antidepressant discontinuation syndrome include flu-like symptoms, insomnia, nausea, imbalance, sensory disturbances, and hyperarousal. These symptoms usually are mild, last one to two weeks, and are rapidly extinguished with reinstitution of antidepressant medication.

Anti depressants are not habit forming, so long as you never stop taking them.  The American Medical industry is not to be trusted, period.

Ahhhhh...where to start...

You've got a lot of semantics going on, some are inappropriate, some are essentially meaningless. I'd rather not
get wrapped around the axle on that stuff, it's not particularly important.

In no particular order:

1.  Antidepressants do have effects (or we wouldn't use em for depression, ha) and serotonin rebound is a recognized
effect from sudden discontinuation. You can explore that on your time.

2.  Insomnia isn't typically a symptom of endogenous depression (that's depression that has no explicable
external cause, like death of a child, being diagnosed with a terminal condition, etc).

3. Antidepressants are more likely to enhance sleeplessness, than counter it.

4. Psych meds (including antidepressants) are legally prescribable by any MD.  Primary care docs are generally
not great at "working" psych meds, and can be pretty awful. It's a specialty--you wouldn't expect your pri-care
doc to treat you for cancer, and psych meds are best handled by MDs that specialize in that field, aka psychiatrists.

5. Don't expect a whole lot of talking from a psychiatrist, beyond diagnosing (titling, classifying) the pt's
condition. In other words, a psychiatrist typically relies on medication, and does not indulge in "talk
therapy".  "Talk therapy" is the realm of psychologists and mental health counselors...and "licensed
clinical social workers", kinda-sorta (unless your problem resides in realm of being a member of a
"oppressed and disadvantaged group in a society", pass up the social workers.

Edit: it's not that psychiatrists are prohibited from talk therapy, it's just that they don't do
it, and instead focus their time and effort on titrating (the term is typically used in adjusting
a med to pt's symptoms/side effects/efficacy, not in terms of discontinuation of med) the drug(s)
in use. This is science + art + experience, and it IS the bailiwick of psychiatrists. The one's I've
seen have always had a LINE of pts waiting for consults on med/dosage/etc, and it was purely
med based consideration--no time for doing talk therapy!

Psychologists generally have a doctorate, mental health counselors generally have a masters
degree. Psychologists generally cost more, counselors, less.

6. Most, like >98% of psychiatric issues, benefit from and/or can be solved with talk therapy. There
are a few that ONLY respond to medication (schizophrenia, for one), but for most other situations,
talk therapy--sometimes, sometimes, assisted with meds (typically temporarily),  is the
route to success. 

I could go on and on...but hope that's enough to give you an idea of a better direction, to head.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 09:07:47 PM by Steve20 »

MajMike

  • Board Supporter
  • SKS Gunsmith
  • *****
  • Posts: 1959
  • Honor is a gift one gives to oneself - Rob Roy
Re: Addicted to Anti Depressants
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2021, 09:36:46 PM »
"The money's in the treatment baby, not in the cure."

μολὼν λαβέ

JimmyJamesKY

  • Board Supporter
  • SKS Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3840
  • Sign says long-haired freaky people may now apply.
Re: Addicted to Anti Depressants
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2021, 10:25:25 PM »
Quote
You've got a lot of semantics going on, some are inappropriate, some are essentially meaningless.

This is not something I know much about, but I suppose that's obvious.  I appreciate your post shedding some light on the subject. I don't think this person has depression, just chronic and persistent insomnia.  That doesn't sound like that big of a deal, but the ability to rest has a pretty big impact on your quality of life.

The prescribing practitioner is an APRN, and sounds like he is a little out of his depth.
Good friends will lend a hand, great friends will grab a leg....

rodnocker1

  • Board Supporter
  • SKS Marksman
  • *****
  • Posts: 108
Re: Addicted to Anti Depressants
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2021, 09:05:06 AM »
"The doctors can't say "withdrawal symptoms" because they are pushing ADs as a non habit forming alternative to pretty much everything apparently.  Or maybe junkies just have "Heroin Discontinue Syndrome.""

Nothing to do with AD's but I have severe pain due to 50+ years of treating my body like it was indestructible.  From Motorcycle and Auto wrecks to almost being killed in an Oilfield Drilling Rig Blowout when I was 22 (the Damage was so bad that when the Doctors 1st saw it, they started to just go ahead and amputate my Right arm and leg), along with just plain Old Age.

Anyway, I haven't been on AD's but my Doctor(s) have had me on Tramadol (a synthetic Opioid that doesn't show up on the "Average" drug test) for severe pain for over 10 years.  They had me taking 5 pills a day and swore up and down that it wasn't habit forming and he had "No Problem keeping me on it long term".  Reading up on it now, it says you shouldn't be on it more than 10 days so as to prevent addiction and they are cracking down on Doctors over prescribing Opioids so he started saying we need to reduce the amount he had me on.  I tried started to get off of them 1 or 2 times in the past but each time i tried, it seemed like I was getting the Flu.  After looking it up on the Net, it said that that is a "Withdrawal Symptom" and some ex-users were saying that they'd been off of it for over 2 months and were still in withdrawal. 

So I asked my "Pain Management" Doctor about the withdrawal symptoms and he smiled and still said there aren't any "Withdrawal Symptoms".  I stopped taking them the 1st of December and for 3 months basically felt like I had a Severe case of the Flu without the Fever.  I was so weak, I could barely do anything.  I'm doing a lot better now, other than having to deal with the pain from NOT taking Meds and the weight I gained from no physical exercise for 3 months.

Friends and Family are telling me about some other Med that's being prescribed now and that I should go get a Prescription.  I told them I just got off of 1, I'm not getting hooked on another.
Rodney

Steve20

  • SKS Newbie
  • Posts: 34
Re: Addicted to Anti Depressants
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2021, 12:46:54 AM »
Quote
The prescribing practitioner is an APRN, and sounds like he is a little out of his depth.

As stated previously, psych meds are really best administered by practitioners that specialize
in doing so.

Now if the APRN is a "psych nurse", he/she may well have an extensive body of knowledge &
experience in that speciality. If a generalist/pri care, not so much.

BTW, regarding the alleged use of an antidepressant for insomnia: here's a decent summary
of general side effects associated with major antidepressants.

https://www.healthline.com/health/antidepressant-side-effects#snr-is


 Both SSRI and SNRI (the
vast majority of what is prescribed for depressants, for decades) can cause sleeplessness
or insomnia, as side effect.

The tricyclics--more of a Seventies and earlier antidepressant--can cause drowsiness, but
with additional undesireable side effects. Tricyclics would be an unlikely choice for treating
insomnia. Something like benadryl/sominex/diphenhydramine would give a non-RX drug with fewer
side effects.