Author Topic: Accessory to murder?  (Read 2529 times)

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Judah80

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Accessory to murder?
« on: June 22, 2022, 11:39:02 AM »
If you physically stop someone from attempting to stop a murder in progress are you an accessory? Your wife calls you and she has been shot by a shooter and when you attempt to get to her the police restrain you and take your firearm while they do absolutely nothing while she dies. Is that accessory to murder?
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1mlt

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Re: Accessory to murder?
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2022, 11:47:10 AM »
I think it would depend on a lot factors not displayed here. My initial take is no it wouldn't be. But you haven't provided enough "evidence" to make that determination. BUT, I not a lawyer, this not legal advice, etc.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 11:37:21 AM by 1mlt »
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Tainted

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Re: Accessory to murder?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2022, 10:10:59 AM »
I think I know what you're referencing.
I feel like it's something that's going to depend on the exact circumstances.

One case to possibly look at is the George Floyd case.
Chauvin was convicted for murder I believe?
What happened to the guys who stood around him and watched?
I guess you could take their actions as the same as actively preventing
someone from helping and see how the courts responded to it?
Although there was probably a lot of political and social pressure in this case.

That's the only thing I could think of.

Onepoint

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Re: Accessory to murder?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2022, 07:56:22 AM »
In Floyds case they couldn't' get accessory charges, so the feds prosecuted them for violating his civil rights. 

In the Uvalde shooting, I'm sure they are covered by qualified immunity. But it's a sad testament to where we are that you have to fight your way through the cops to get in to stop a mass shooter.  And they want us to turn in our "weapons of war"?  Seems to me there is no better reason to keep them, in fact I believe its nearing time to start using them in that way when you are prevented from defending family.
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Filroy77

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Re: Accessory to murder?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2022, 04:43:31 PM »
In Floyds case they couldn't' get accessory charges, so the feds prosecuted them for violating his civil rights. 

In the Uvalde shooting, I'm sure they are covered by qualified immunity. But it's a sad testament to where we are that you have to fight your way through the cops to get in to stop a mass shooter.  And they want us to turn in our "weapons of war"?  Seems to me there is no better reason to keep them, in fact I believe its nearing time to start using them in that way when you are prevented from defending family.

Kind of like this example?

https://www.theblaze.com/news/uvalde-teacher-called-cop-husband

Shot Uvalde teacher called police officer husband, told him she was dying. He tried to rescue her but was stopped, removed from scene — and his gun was taken.
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Judah80

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Re: Accessory to murder?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2022, 05:29:35 PM »
If qualified immunity protects cops in this instance then there is no argument you can make that will ever convince me that the pros of qualified immunity outweighs the cons.
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Tainted

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Re: Accessory to murder?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2022, 11:39:54 PM »
I'm not referencing this case as I believe it was tragically mishandled but there are times
when the police must stop people and control the scene otherwise you have random people
entering a possible hostage situation, the people entering end up shooting kids themselves by accident
or the people entering may be up to no good.

If this happened to me I sure as hell would be ready to enter but how do we know when the
police are containing and taking care of the situation as opposed to neglecting it?


Onepoint

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Re: Accessory to murder?
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2022, 07:24:34 AM »
Maybe a clue will be when your wife calls and is begging for someone to come in and save her and the police are cuffing people to keep them from going in, while they are staying outside themselves?

There is no real answer, because every situation will be different.  Not enough caution could make it worse, too much and we see what happens there too.  But in this particular situation, gunman in the school, shots fired, known to be in a classroom full of kids, it's not really a choice of escalation at that point, but they made it one anyway, and I hope they all burn for it.

Active shooter situations are way too fluid to have a set answer or plan, generally the strategy has evolved to simply engage them at first opportunity. What to do if police are not doing that? The problem is if you as a citizen try to engage them, even if you are among the targeted victims the chances are very high you will be shot by cops even if you succeed and end it for the perpetrator. And there is less repercussion for that than even in the cases they held back.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 07:41:57 AM by Onepoint »
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Danjal

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Re: Accessory to murder?
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2022, 10:52:04 PM »
In Floyds case they couldn't' get accessory charges, so the feds prosecuted them for violating his civil rights. 

In the Uvalde shooting, I'm sure they are covered by qualified immunity. But it's a sad testament to where we are that you have to fight your way through the cops to get in to stop a mass shooter.  And they want us to turn in our "weapons of war"?  Seems to me there is no better reason to keep them, in fact I believe its nearing time to start using them in that way when you are prevented from defending family.

The cops don't need QI, SCOTUS has ruled at least 3 times that the police have no legal obligation to protect anyone. So that pretty much absolved them of responding to a crime in progress.

As far as the original post, no it's not accessory. They showed up in defense, not to kill her. The main issue is they need to prove they were there to stop them, not kill her. The evidence on the police side is guy with gun at murder. They'd need proof stating they were going to help.
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Onepoint

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Re: Accessory to murder?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2022, 10:17:24 AM »
Yeah QI is for when they do something like shoot someone in the process of carrying out their duty, but I am meaning more of using it for detaining someone who is trying to stop a shooting, and that may not even be covered under QI anyway, but I bet that it would be tried as the defense if needed.

In this case, it was a cop in the dept who standing around who was detained from entering to save his wife, so what more proof do you need to show you are not part of the crime?   That ruling that they are under no obligation to risk their lives to protect someone doesn't extend to stopping someone else from doing so.
Experience is the hardest kind of teacher, it gives the test 1st and the lesson after.

Courage is knowing it may hurt and doing it anyway.
Stupidity is the same.
This is why life is so hard.

Danjal

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Re: Accessory to murder?
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2022, 10:44:16 PM »
At that point there's several laws or reasons they can stop you. Not all of which we agree to, but here we are.
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