Previously unvaccinated vs vaccinated

[Filroy77]

Neurologist explains why unvaccinated previously infected people are less likely to spread COVID than never-infected vaccinated people

https://www.theblaze.com/news/neurologist-unvaccinated-previously-infected-less-likely-to-spread-covid

Americans have received countless mixed messages about the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines, natural immunity, herd immunity, and virus transmission. Dr. Michael Segal, a neurologist and neuroscientist, wrote a piece for the Wall Street Journal attempting to clear up some misconceptions about how immunity works when it comes to the vaccines and natural immunity.

And he reached a conclusion that should pique the interest of millions of Americans — as well as policymakers: People who have had COVID-19 and recovered should not be required to get the vaccine, because they are less likely to spread the virus than vaccinated people who have never been infected.

What's that now?

Segal began his piece with a question that has been in the minds of many Americans confused by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's vacillating guidelines: "Vaccinated people are supposed to resume wearing masks, lest they contract and spread the virus. Yet unvaccinated people are still strongly urged to get the shots, which are said to be highly effective. How can both these claims be true?"

The truth is "there's more than one kind of immunity," Segal said.

First, he noted, there's "internal immunity," which, according to Segal, "protects the inside of the body, including the lungs" and "occurs by release of antibodies of the Immunoglobulin G type, or IgG, into the blood and production of T-cells."

Vaccine shots "are highly effective" at stimulating this type of immunity, Segal said, which "largely protects vaccinated people from being overwhelmed by the coronavirus, unless they have an immunodeficiency or are exposed to an unusually large amount of the virus."

The second immunity Segal cited was "mucosal immunity," which is a defense line that protects the nose and mouth, and thereby decreases the likelihood of spreading to others. This is an immunity, Segal explained, that is not normally obtained via vaccinations:

The mucous membranes secrete a particular form of antibodies of the Immunoglobulin A type, or IgA. But vaccines injected into our muscles—including all the approved inoculations against Covid—are largely ineffective at stimulating the secretion of IgA into our noses that occurs after actual infection with a virus. As a result, vaccinated people can contract a Covid-19 infection confined to the mucous membranes. They may get the sniffles but can spread the virus to others even if they are asymptomatic.
This fact, Segal pointed out, "has implications for public-health authorities' determination to achieve herd immunity through vaccination alone."

While the world waits for nasal spray vaccinations, he continued, "herd immunity may prove difficult to achieve unless more people get infected and develop natural immunity of both types."

But naturally, that's a problem, he continued, writing, "Given the dangers of infection, officials are rightly reluctant to encourage actual infection, and loath to mention its benefit in conferring mucosal immunity."

So what should people make of this?

Segal has answer: Don't "shun" the previously infected.

If vaccines are going to be mandated, make exceptions for those who have recovered from COVID-19, since their "natural mucosal immunity" puts them "at less risk than never-infected vaccinated people of spreading the virus to others."

Funny how they ain’t telling us any of this. They want us to believe the unvaccinated are killing people when in actuality it’s more likely the vaccinated are.

The wife and I have had covid and feel we are good to go. Maybe at some point we will get vaccinated after it’s been around awhile. See if people are growing an extra head or limb or are becoming sterile.

[LESchwartz]

Moved to the Tinfoil Hat forum.

Larry
Moderator

[Rocketvapor]

I would THINK that previously infected people with significant antibodies would be less likely to spread COVID for the duration of their protection.
Just testing positive, or having a minimal viral load could be a false flag of protection. 
The activation period of vaccinated people takes several days, maybe even weeks.
Spreading potential for those with COVID or those that did not allow adequate vaccination immune response is probably quite high. 
Whether a natural immune response or a successful vaccine plus boosters would last longer is a big question in my mind. 

Will you need to be reinfected 9 to 12 months down the road?
Or try to get infected with the latest variant?

[Onepoint]

It depends on how different the virus mutates from original form. If that's the case then the vaccines would have to be reworked for every variant as well instead of just giving the same vaccine again.  I suspect our bodies are better at quickly adapting to viral invasions including once you get covid and it makes antibodies and recognizes it, the problem is you have to get sick for it to happen.  The problem with the vaccine is it doesn't keep you from getting sick.  Its not like the polio vaccine which this keeps getting compared to, we don't have mild cases of polio, we have none after vaccination.

[projo198]

The truth is that in the US this pandemic has to last at least through the upcoming elections and hopefully until the presidential election.

[Hodgie]

I’m not sure how this is a tin foil hat subject since it’s the current talk of legit people in the medical and scientific community, but okay I guess.

Israel and Ireland just released their current infected numbers and 50% of their hospitalized COVID patients have already been vaccinated. Last I read Israel has the highest number of vaccinated citizens of any one nation. They are now calling for a booster every 8 months.

Doesn’t sound too promising for the “Only thing” that’s going to save us from certain doom.

Here is some recent info from a real thinking Dr.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TtFapXG1zbo&t=7s

[LESchwartz]

Funny how they ain’t telling us any of this. They want us to believe the unvaccinated are killing people when in actuality it’s more likely the vaccinated are.

The WSJ piece was comparing unvaccinated people who had recovered from COVID with vaccinated folks.  The implication was that recovering from COVID provided some additional immunity versus the vaccine.

The wife and I have had covid and feel we are good to go. Maybe at some point we will get vaccinated after it’s been around awhile. See if people are growing an extra head or limb or are becoming sterile.

Sorry to hear about that.  I expect you'll be protected for awhile.  Unfortunately, I know people who have gotten COVID more than once already.  .GOV is being pretty tight lipped about this.

The latest information out of Israel is that immunity from the vaccine starts to wane after maybe six months.  This allows certain variants to infect people.  That's why they're already talking about "booster shots" over there.  I also expect that where we will probably land is with periodic COVID shots, just like we have yearly flu shots.  The thing about yearly flu shots is that they only need to protect you until "flu season" is over.  My expectation is that the interval for the COVID shots will be more often, as it seems that there isn't a particular season for COVID.

I also expect that full FDA approval for some of the vaccines isn't to far off.  That likely means vaccinations requirements by a bunch of employers aren't far behind.  I do realize that some employers -- primarily in health care -- are already requiring vaccinations.  I expect we'll see many employers -- especially of "essential workers" -- requiring them soon after full approval.  My wife used to work in health care and getting various vaccinations was a condition of her employment.  She knew that going in.  But we're already seeing that many other employees aren't taking to kindly to employers trying to add additional "vaccination conditions" to their employment terms.

Larry

PS:  As soon as I was done posting, I saw a news article saying full FDA approval of Pfizer vaccine likely by Monday.

[Onepoint]

Vaccinated are getting sick as well despite being vaccinated. 

Lets stop pretending this is just like the polio or small pox vaccines, we don't have mild cases of polio post vaccination.  This is far closer to seasonal flu vaccines than the pro vaccers want to admit, limited and wildly varied efficacy, limited duration for benefit.  Yet many want it mandatory with a false claim it will eradicate covid in doing so.

 I did see a story today about how the J&J variant seems to hold longer, though I'm sure that will change because they want to get in on the never ending booster cash cow.   Its not a coincidence that studies tend to come out in favor of those who pay for them.

[Rocketvapor]

And now it seems the vaccinated Democrats have tainted the blood supply.

Only accept unvaccinated blood or carry your own, like the President. 

[Onepoint]

Biden is a vampire?  I would have guessed him more of an animated corpse myself.

[Rocketvapor]

Trump carried his own.
You can't sell blood products on ebay or you would see expired Trump blood for sale.

Maybe some key states should outlaw vaccinated people from donating?
Or label blood as W/R/UnV.
Can nanobots be filtered out with magnets?

[Filroy77]

Funny how they ain’t telling us any of this. They want us to believe the unvaccinated are killing people when in actuality it’s more likely the vaccinated are.

The WSJ piece was comparing unvaccinated people who had recovered from COVID with vaccinated folks.  The implication was that recovering from COVID provided some additional immunity versus the vaccine.

Yes it was but Segal also said this: “ The truth is "there's more than one kind of immunity," Segal said.
The second immunity Segal cited was "mucosal immunity," which is a defense line that protects the nose and mouth, and thereby decreases the likelihood of spreading to others. This is an immunity, Segal explained, that is not normally obtained via vaccinations.

Is the CDC or the NIH saying any of this stuff? Who knows? Fauci is apparently they’re mouthpiece and doesn’t say anything about this so it’s lying through omission.

Why the big push for the vaccine? The president comes on and tells us that we’re killing people if we’re not vaccinated yet Segal seems to think otherwise. The flu takes as many lives if not more than Covid and there’s no big push to be vaccinated for it!

My wife is now considering the vaccine and I don’t begrudge her for that. They say it’s an extra layer of protection, I hope so. Myself on the other hand well wait and see.

The bottom line is, they’re using Covid to control the people. Again, totally un-American.

Thank you Larry for your Health concerns for my wife and I, it is truly appreciated.

[ramblin84]

A classic...

Bud: ‘You can’t come in here!’
Lou: ‘Why not?’
Bud: ‘Well because you’re unvaccinated.’
Lou: ‘But I’m not sick.’
Bud: ‘It doesn’t matter.’
Lou: ‘Well, why does that guy get to go in?’
Bud: ‘Because he’s vaccinated.’
Lou: ‘But he’s sick!’
Bud: ‘It’s alright. Everyone in here is vaccinated.’
Lou: ‘Wait a minute. Are you saying everyone in there is vaccinated?’
Bud: ‘Yes.’
Lou: ‘So then why can’t I go in there if everyone is vaccinated?’
Bud: ‘Because you’ll make them sick.’
Lou: ‘How will I make them sick if I’m NOT sick and they’re vaccinated.’
Bud: ‘Because you’re unvaccinated.’
Lou: ‘But they’re vaccinated.’
Bud: ‘But they can still get sick.’
Lou: ‘So what the heck does the vaccine do?’
Bud: ‘It vaccinates.’
Lou: ‘So vaccinated people can’t spread the WuFlu?’
Bud: ‘Oh, no. They can spread the WuFlu just as easily as an unvaccinated person.’
Lou: ‘I don’t even know what I’m saying anymore. Look. I’m not sick.
Bud: ‘Ok.’
Lou: ‘And the guy you let in IS sick.’
Bud: ‘That’s right.’
Lou: ‘And everybody in there can still get sick even though they’re vaccinated.’
Bud: ‘Certainly.’
Lou: ‘So why can’t I go in again?’
Bud: ‘Because you’re unvaccinated.’
Lou: ‘I’m not asking who’s vaccinated or not!’
Bud: ‘I’m just telling you how it is.’
Lou: ‘Never mind. I’ll just put on my mask.’
Bud: ‘That’s fine.’
Lou: ‘Now I can go in?’
Bud: ‘Absolutely not?’
Lou: ‘But I have a mask!’
Bud: ‘Doesn’t matter.’
Lou: ‘I was able to come in here yesterday with a mask.’
Bud: ‘I know.’
Lou: So why can’t I come in here today with a mask? If you say ‘because I’m unvaccinated’ again, I’ll break your arm.’
Bud: ‘Take it easy buddy.’
Lou: ‘So the mask is no good anymore.’
Bud: ‘No, it’s still good.’
Lou: ‘But I can’t come in?’
Bud: ‘Correct.’
Lou: ‘Why not?’
Bud: ‘Because you’re unvaccinated.’
Lou: ‘But the mask prevents the germs from getting out.’
Bud: ‘Yes, but people can still catch your germs.’
Lou: ‘But they’re all vaccinated.’
Bud: ‘Yes, but they can still get sick.’
Lou: ‘But I’m not sick!!’
Bud: ‘You can still get them sick.’
Lou: ‘So then masks don’t work!’
Bud: ‘Masks work quite well.’
Lou: ‘So how in the heck can I get vaccinated people sick if I’m not sick and masks work?’
Bud: ‘Right field.’

[Rocketvapor]

I'm beginning to think this virus was so well engineered that there is NO defense from it.
Maybe you die, maybe you don't. Maybe you'll be a long haul victim. 
Vaccinated, unvaccinated, previously infected, soon to be infected.
Everyone is susceptible to reinfection from a new variant several months after thought to be safe.
Maybe there will be treatment to prevent or cure but if the government did nothing society would crumble.
Eventually a loved one will succumb to the virus, no way out of it. 
All actions to date are feel good efforts.  Nothing more.
Make good use of your Friday and Saturday nights while you can.
 

[Onepoint]

Trump carried his own.
You can't sell blood products on ebay or you would see expired Trump blood for sale.

Maybe some key states should outlaw vaccinated people from donating?
Or label blood as W/R/UnV.
Can nanobots be filtered out with magnets?

Probably just microwave it for 20 seconds and you're good to go.