Kel-Tec Sub 2000

[Kryntik]

I have a sub 2K, the hipoint wins hands down just on the reliability issue alone.  The Kel-Tec is not made as a hi round count range gun, it may have some advantages but durability and reliability are not among them.  The real only thing it has going for it are portability, weight and mag capacity, none of which matter if it's broken.

My brother and cousin have both owned Hi Point rifles and pistols. They seemed much more likely hurt the operator than whatever you were aiming at. We used one as a paddle one time and I'd give it a 5/10 rating for that purpose.

So you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.  Hipoints are extremely accurate and of the pistols, only the 9mm has any real issues for some people due to the mags not being that great, both of mine have been 100% reliable. The .40 and .45 almost never have issues and the carbines are as reliable as the sun coming up in the morning.

Oh? No idea? So there's no chance that perhaps it was incredible bad luck with a series of unlikely yet possible lemons? And my not wanting to risk it on something I've had a poor experience with? Yes, that sounds like fair reasoning from a man I've never met that knows nothing of my experience as a shooter. To each his own but with MY experience they are garbage. YMMV

I though it was the experience of your brother and cousin?  What Hipoint do they own?  Pistol?  What caliber?  Carbine?  What caliber?  Which one had the so called boat paddle issue?

I shoot the guns my family and friends buy. Both had carbines in 9, my brother had a pistol in 9 and the cousin has a pistol in .40. To be fair, I think the issue with the .40 could be fixed with magazine replacements and better ammo. We used one of the 995s as a paddle after losing the oar while fishing.

[Kryntik]

They were both first gen I believe, if that makes any difference. And yes, both were inaccurate and one had an ejector issue that threw hot brass all sorts of crazy directions.

[Danjal]

I got hurt by a hi point once. Then again I was sticking my fingers into areas I shouldn't have on it. It slammed shut promptly on them.

Hi points are the last call casualties at a bar of the firearms world. Fugly, but they'll do what you want and do it as best as they can. You don't really brag about them either and try to upgrade as fast as humanly possible too.

[Kryntik]

"Hi points are the last call casualties at a bar of the firearms world. Fugly, but they'll do what you want and do it as best as they can."

I'm totally stealing this

[wolfgang2000]

To get back to the Kel-Tec S2K, I have hand one since 2010.  I love the little gun.   I don't have a high round count (maybe 500 rds) through it, but so far it's been 100%. 

I have a carbine in all but one of my pistol calibers, including a Marlin camp9 that has been modified to take Glock magazines.  the S2K holds it's own.  The folding feature is what makes it work for me.  I took a HP 17" laptop computer bag and made a good little gun bag.

They have a life time warranty for the original owner, so if some one is having issues send it back to them.  From my experience Kel-Tec factory service is pretty good.

I understand we are all different and not everything works the same for each of us, and that's cool.  But the little rifle works well for me.

[Lafayettegregory]

I don't understand all the hate when highpoint comes up   They worked out their early issues years ago and made good with the owners on all those issues.  Since then they  have made some very good products and the many torture test have proven them to be reliable. Are they ugly- yes. are some of the pistols heavy and a bit ungainly- Yes. BUT they are reliable ad accurate.  A lot more than can be said about some more popular firearms.

[Danjal]

For what they are, the carbines are one of the best deals in firearms going today.

[bow_breaker]

I have a hipoint 45 carbine. I have fed it handloads varying from 250 swc to almost 45 super hotter than hades 200 grain xtp. The dang thing just simply works.

[panoz77]

Hickok45 does a fairly honest review even though you can tell he does not like the C9.  He claims he doesn't like how it fits his hand, but as you can see, the hipoint is very accurate.  He also complains about the odd recoil which is odd to me because the C9 is by far the softest shooting 9mm I own, it has very little felt recoil due to the slide mass and direct blowback action.  Also, he claims retail price around $175 which is high, he uses this to justify only a little more money for much better choices, in actuality the C9 can be had shipped to your FFL for $140-150 online at several places.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCNx0Ql2ZZw

[Darts2116]

I guess it comes down to personal choice just like arguing AR VS AK VS SKS Vs Mini 14. It like what sports team you support. There really is not a wrong answer.  Two things that sold me on the Keltec (and lets face it folks that gun aint winning any beauty contests either) is that it takes common pistol mags and it folds. As I stated in my post above I have the Beretta version. When I get my pistol permit I will definitely be buying a 92f to match.  If I'm really lucky I'll find a good used Beretta centurion.

The Keltec's do have a break-in period where you have to use heavier bullets.  I'm a fan of the 124 grain anyway in 9mm.  I have either Speer Gold dots +p or Remington Golden Saber +p rounds in mine and its my home defense gun.   I live on Suburban Long Island, even in a WROL or SHTF situation I'm never going to take a shot over 150 yards.  For that a pistol caliber carbine is a very handy choice and paring it with a pistol that takes the same mag it gives you a lot of options. 

Then you get into the caliber wars.  I would love to get a 45acp carbine. Unfortunately the only one that is on the market currently being made  that is SAFE act compliant is the JRC and at almost 1000 I can't justify buying one. Its really not going to do all that much more than my Keltec and for that price I don't need another range toy.

I think it just comes down to people want to justifies why they spent money on one gun vs another.  Or they had a bad experience with one gun so that is it.  I own a Chinese's letter SKS.  I'm not usually into buying more than one same gun.  I just don't have the and my tastes are two diverse.  However, that being said there are two other version of an sks that I would like.  A Chinese paratrooper that takes AK mags and a Yugo with the grenade cup.  I mentioned this on another board on a thread about the SKS.  One guy jumps on and starts telling me the YUGO is much better rifle and that the Chinese guns are junk.   We all have our opinions and we need to remember that when we are voicing that opinion.

The way I see it we are gun people and in the current political atmosphere we need to stick together.

[panoz77]

I guess it comes down to personal choice just like arguing AR VS AK VS SKS Vs Mini 14. It like what sports team you support. There really is not a wrong answer.  Two things that sold me on the Keltec (and lets face it folks that gun aint winning any beauty contests either) is that it takes common pistol mags and it folds. As I stated in my post above I have the Beretta version. When I get my pistol permit I will definitely be buying a 92f to match.  If I'm really lucky I'll find a good used Beretta centurion.

The Keltec's do have a break-in period where you have to use heavier bullets.  I'm a fan of the 124 grain anyway in 9mm.  I have either Speer Gold dots +p or Remington Golden Saber +p rounds in mine and its my home defense gun.   I live on Suburban Long Island, even in a WROL or SHTF situation I'm never going to take a shot over 150 yards.  For that a pistol caliber carbine is a very handy choice and paring it with a pistol that takes the same mag it gives you a lot of options. 

Then you get into the caliber wars.  I would love to get a 45acp carbine. Unfortunately the only one that is on the market currently being made  that is SAFE act compliant is the JRC and at almost 1000 I can't justify buying one. Its really not going to do all that much more than my Keltec and for that price I don't need another range toy.

I think it just comes down to people want to justifies why they spent money on one gun vs another.  Or they had a bad experience with one gun so that is it.  I own a Chinese's letter SKS.  I'm not usually into buying more than one same gun.  I just don't have the and my tastes are two diverse.  However, that being said there are two other version of an sks that I would like.  A Chinese paratrooper that takes AK mags and a Yugo with the grenade cup.  I mentioned this on another board on a thread about the SKS.  One guy jumps on and starts telling me the YUGO is much better rifle and that the Chinese guns are junk.   We all have our opinions and we need to remember that when we are voicing that opinion.

The way I see it we are gun people and in the current political atmosphere we need to stick together.

I have both.  It simply depends on what qualities are more important to a person.  If folding, weight, portability and mag capacity are the most important factors, then the Sub2K wins.  If durability, reliability, accuracy and cost are the most important factors to you, then the Hipoint carbine wins. 

[ImTryin]

I shot my hi point carbine 2000 rounds over 6 different shooting sessions before I even cleaned it. Not one single malfunction with 5 different kinds of ammo.. Keeping shots in the black at 50 to 75 yards is trivial

I dropped the thing in my garage and broke the front sight hood, didn't affect the zero...

The broken sight hood is clearly hi point's fault, the bastards...

[panoz77]

I shot my hi point carbine 2000 rounds over 6 different shooting sessions before I even cleaned it. Not one single malfunction with 5 different kinds of ammo.. Keeping shots in the black at 50 to 75 yards is trivial

I dropped the thing in my garage and broke the front sight hood, didn't affect the zero...

The broken sight hood is clearly hi point's fault, the bastards...

Just call them up and ask for a new one, they will ship you one and they don't even charge you shipping 

[Lafayettegregory]

Panzo- Are there any good aftermarket items for the carbine? Such as improved sights? etc.....

[ImTryin]

Panzo- Are there any good aftermarket items for the carbine? Such as improved sights? etc.....

The peep/blade arrangement on the carbine is pretty decent...it's all railed up so you can attach red dots or whatever if you want