Have we thought about this before? :-/

[ZapThyCat]

One more possibility with dire consequences, and one that is difficult to prepare for as well!

Squanto Terror was a US program during the cold war in which a nuclear weapon was blown up in space, and caused a huge EMP wave to wipe out thousands of square miles worth of circuits and electronics...

Which in that test didn't do much besides wipe out the electrics of Hawaii and Johnston Island, since it was tested in the South Pacific.  

Just like "Goldeneye", which was a fictional James Bond story...

However this is very much real.  A Nuke detonated in space would render all electronics wiped out.  That includes everything from your GPS unit to your television, your CB radio to your laptop... I haven't researched it, but couldn't it even stomp out flashlights and "simple" electronics?  What about newer cars that have computers in them?  Toast.  Get an old 70's model car or something...

How would this stomp out your plans?  Has anyone bothered to prepare for this?  

The biggest problem in this is that one nuke would wipe out everything for hundreds of miles.  Depends on the altitude, the strength of the blast, etc...

But it's possible that a strong blast could take out half the US?  At least a state's worth of electrical grids, right?

Have you prepared for this?  Hope there's no electronics on your rifle... :-/

[etdbob]

The biggest problem in this is that one nuke would wipe out everything for hundreds of miles. Depends on the altitude, the strength of the blast, etc...

But it's possible that a strong blast could take out half the US? At least a state's worth of electrical grids, right?

No Zap Cat, It can't happen that way.
For a factual look at what really happend that day in 1962 when operation Starfish detonated a 1.4 Megaton bomb above Johnston Island, how EMP is produced and the dangers to the Grid, download and read these studies:
Effect of the FAST NUCLEAR ELECTROMAGNETIC PULES on the eletric power grid nationwide -
http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0307/0307127.pdf

NUCLEAR MAGNETOHYDRODYNAMIC EMP, SOLAR STORMS, AND SUBSTORMS -

http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0307/0307067.pdf

[ZapThyCat]

My attention span is far too short to absorb more than a few lines of that document.

However I have this though:  What if it's propaganda?  It COULD still happen.  Have you prepared for it...?

[Morg308]

My attention span is far too short to absorb more than a few lines of that document.

However I have this though:  What if it's propaganda?  It COULD still happen.  Have you prepared for it...?

Not everything is propaganda. There is still a thing called science. Facts do exist. Being facts, they are not subjective. My point is, read the document or don't. Yes, it could be an issue, but localized. It doesn't last long enough to be a threat over the entire planet. (A single incident) There are some very smart people in several branches of government who have been working on hardening our information hardware and backing it up for years now.

There is a way, for example, to harden forward bases from EMP, and it involves basically special grounding and sheilding, but it's not rocket science. The mobile CP's used in Iraq right now are using some of this technology. Whether or not they deploy it, I don't know, but I bet they do on at least a battalion level.  If you're really worried, buy a distributor and points for your car, along with a carb.

[chris]

My attention span is far too short to absorb more than a few lines of that document.

Then why pose the question? Someone went out of their way, thanks etbob, to give you the very information your bring up. And you won't even read it?

[etdbob]

Zap, those are peer reviewed scientific papers, complete with all the math to check the authors conclusions, not propaganda.

Print 'em off. Skip the math but read 'em over a few times as you have the chance. They are a very good bit of research.
You can even just skip to the conclusions.

Your never to old to learn something new!

Bottom line, the grid might be somewhat vulnerable to EMP, but the danger is widely overblown.  Certainly large blackouts have been caused by large solar storms.
No reason why EMP can't do the same.
But, although EMP bursts may be ten times as powerful as big solar storms, an EMP burst lasts no more than 100 seconds.

A good solar storm can last several days.
In fact, we're hit with solar storms on a regular basis, as a result of the suns seven year sun spot cycle.
The EMP bursts have a much shorter duration to saturate the distribution system and cause damage.
As our grid gets stressed with ever more demand, it does take less to knock it off line, which is why the industry is responding with tactics like actually monitoring the ampacity of long distance power lines - something we have never before bothered to do - giving time to open circuits if induced voltages ( either the result of a solar storm or EMP ) rises to dangerous levels.
The fact that we cope fairly well with the routine seven year sun spot cycle indicates that EMP bursts would also be handled fairly well. - The danger to the grid in both cases is essentially the same.

As far as the initial fast burst that is supposed to sweep the country knocking out any and all electronic circuit made since 1975, that is pure myth and nothing more!

The first paper proves that the effects of this initial pulse is somewhat similar to the effects of lightning.

If your worried about the effects of EMP I strongly recommend you invest in a good surge arrestor on the service entrance of your home. They ain't expensive - an MOV based "grenade" should cost ya no more than 60 bucks, and will provide a measure of protection to everything plugged in to the grid in your home.

Also, even if the grid does go down, it is temporary.

Again, there is no need what so ever to keep your radios in a faraday cage or anything like that.
If it ain't connected to the grid, and your far enough away from the blast to survive, so is all your electronics.  

As far as preparations go, well, I'm already living in a remote off grid homestead.
 
 :D

[etdbob]

Again I must stress that if your car is far enough away from a blast that it was not melted, it will still run!
No need for a 1965 "Bug Out Vehicle" with breaker point ignition.

As the second paper I posted shows, a distribution grid hundreds of miles long can expect a peak induced current of about 100 volts per mile.
This is because the long wires have plenty of area to intercept the pulse and is made far worse by ground coupling.

Your car is not grounded, it sits on rubber. The circuits in it run only a few feet. It simply cannot pick up enough induced energy to harm it's electronics.

If the EMP burst is strong enough to damage the electrical components in your car, well, the fillings in your teeth will also have enough current induced in them to melt and run down your throat.  Your eye glasses will burst into flame, as will your wedding ring ( Hmmm, gold is a very good conductor..)
See what I'm getting at?
If  You survive the initial pulse, so will your car.

As these studies show -

- only about one millionth of the bombs energy gets turned into the dreaded TEMP ( Tachy EMP ) that everyone was worried about - and that energy is spread out over millions of square miles.

 - Earlier calculations of the energy in the initial TEMP were high by 60,000%
Yep, 60,000%!

 - Bigger bombs and multiple concurrent bomb bursts  will not have an additive TEMP effect, and will even interfere to produce less TEMP than a single burst!

It is the secondary, slower magnetohydrodynamic EMP, or MHD EMP that is a danger to large scale distribution systems. The effects of this is similar to the effects of solar storms, which as I pointed out, we deal with on a routine basis.

An all out nuclear war possibly could indeed wipe out all of human civilization, and cause a "nuclear winter" that would take a great many other species with us.
Even a limited exchange would contaminate the environment - something our children would have to deal with for generations to come.
 It is truly horrible to contemplate.

The fact that this power rests in the hands of   politicians scares the stuffing out of me!  

But I have seen so much mis-information on the subject of EMP that it ain't funny!
The only thing I can compare it to is the 'ol Y2K scare!

It just ain't gonna happen!  Spend your time and wealth preparing for more tangible threats.

[slingshot]

Electronics on my Main Battle Rifle - I don't think so !!! Car - truck electronic ignitions, electrical current to my living quarters - Oh well - I will miss you, but to be truly prepared to survive, you must be able to switch to STONE AGE technology & skills. Practice, practice practice, and then practice some more.

[2ndsight]

preperation is key in all endevors


http://www.sksboards.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8114

[ZapThyCat]

HOLY CRAP GUYS.

I said "WHAT IF".  I didn't call it propaganda.  I said "WHAT IF IT IS" propaganda.  Fact is that I don't trust everyone that can write a paper.  

Bury your head in the sand if you want.  You think that you are impervious to this threat.  Maybe you are.  Maybe we all freaking are.  But it's something to think about.  

"A smart enemy hits you when you think you're safe".   And nothing would jack us up quite like having no electronics around.  

The real question is this:  Are you prepared for a worst case scenario?  You don't know what potential EMP weapons could have.

[iocane]

Could be used as a economic weapon. Set it off by seattle, its bound to cause trouble for microsoft and other software makers up there. Could be one of those things that causes panic but has not mnuch of a effect. Or it could cause lots of trouble, seems like lots of variables to me that could effect the emp field generated.

[Morg308]

HOLY CRAP GUYS.

I said "WHAT IF".  I didn't call it propaganda.  I said "WHAT IF IT IS" propaganda.  Fact is that I don't trust everyone that can write a paper.  

Bury your head in the sand if you want.  You think that you are impervious to this threat.  Maybe you are.  Maybe we all freaking are.  But it's something to think about.  

"A smart enemy hits you when you think you're safe".   And nothing would jack us up quite like having no electronics around.  

The real question is this:  Are you prepared for a worst case scenario?  You don't know what potential EMP weapons could have.

You don't trust 'everyone' that can write a paper. I agree. So, who DO you rely on for expertise...the guy who 'wrote the paper' you qouted?

Bury my head in the sand? I could be wrong, but most of us would not be reading, let alone POSTING on 'Scenarios and Outcomes' if we were ostrichs. Maybe you ought to get to know us first before you accuse us of being stupid. Something to think about? Damn straight. That's why I have a diagram of how to ground my electronics, and am looking into other ways to harden them. I'm an electrician BTW.

A smart enemy hits you when you think you're safe. Yep. can't disagree. Now, after spending what, a month? on these boards, you should know already that everyone here is thinking about possible dangers. You brought up a very legitimate danger. You were given information about it. Now you're saying we aren't paying attention when in reality, WE'VE ALREADY BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD.

Now, am I prepared for a 'worst case scenario?' Probably not. Define one using the science available in the link you won't read and convince me I should worry more.

I don't know what potential EMP weapons could have? Listen you young pup, I grew up in the 60's and remember 'duck and cover' drills, so please don't presume that you know more about the effects of nuclear attacks than I do okay? Just who the hell do you think you are? You can't even READ the friggin link, but you presume to lecture people who may know more than you do? The very people I might add, who POSTED the link of SCIENTIFIC information that you said your mind couldn't handle?

The effects of EMP have been well publisized since the early 1950's. You're right if you think we could be better prepared, but we are clearly better read on the subject.

[Slivers]

From what I understand about EMPs, it basically shoves electrons around (thus electro magnetic pulse). Provided it's strong enough, that might fry delicate circuitry which is powered at the time, wipe hard drives, etc. It's not going to destroy simple, hardy circuits like flashlights.

As far as I'm concerned, in the event of an EMP attack my computer will be fried and my power will probably be out. At that point I'll have better things to worry about.

[Axxe]

One things is for certain in rough and tumble times....if you buy an older vehicle....you can fix most of it yourself and the parts are cheaper. You can always cruise a junk yard to find parts as well.

I drive a newer Dodge pickup..but my backup is a '78 ford ext cab p/u that I can work on myself. It aint purty but she runs great.

[galahad]

The real question is this:  Are you prepared for a worst case scenario?

Since the worst case scenario is a nuke landing on the city I live in I guess I'd have to say I'm not prepared.  I'm mostly ready for earthquakes and long term power outages.  I can protect myself.  I have water.  I can eat with supplies on hand for about a month.  EMP?  One of my cars has no electronics, so I'm mobile for about 300 miles.  That's enough since "the country" is about 5 miles from my home.

But the point is that we have discussed EMP multiple times over the past few years and most of us have considered it in our preparations.