40 versus 10

[LESchwartz]

I'm thinking of a semi-auto for defense four legged critters primarily in the woods of northern Minnesota.  Mostly black bear, wolves, and packs of feral dogs are what would be encountered.  If I ever get back to the Dakotas, there is a chance of encountering Griz.  I already have decent revolvers in .44 mag and .357 mag, but am looking at a semi for the capacity.  In years past, I owned both 10mm and .40 S&W pistols.  However, I sold them off because of disuse.  Now I'm thinking I might want to get back in the game.

10mm's are being reintroduced by a number of manufacturers.  But used 40s are everywhere and available dirt cheap.  If I were just thinking of a gun for just Northern Minnesota, I would have convinced myself that 40 was all I needed.  However, given the fact that there is the remote possibility of a Griz encounter if I'm further west, I'm thinking I should hold out for 10mm.

Thoughts?  I would especially like to here from folks from western states . . .

Larry

[branflakes]

Get a 10mm.  There's too much input from all around.  I take 200gr gas checked Grizzly 357.  8 rounds in a revolver on my chest.  Capacity is a boost but 40 vs 10mm, in my mind, is like 38 to 357.  You'll want whatever extra push you can get behind that little bullet. 

If you're being charged,  you'll need something that can get through skull cause you won't be hitting vitals through a chest shot.  I don't imagine any pistol round offering rifle like penetration. 

Strength and pain of bears, gorillas, hogs, chimps, wild animals in general, is not comparable to man.  (Unless that mans hopped up on some substance)

[Danjal]

You can get 40 pretty close in power to 10mm, but you'll be paying for Underwood and Buffalo Bore to get it. At that point you're paying for premium ammo for a second rate caliber pistol. You're better off just going 10 to start with.

With a 40 pistol you can get a 9mm conversion barrel if you want, and with a 10mm you can run a 40 with a barrel.

[LESchwartz]

I can always step to Underwood and Buffalo 10mm should I be headed to actual griz country.  Though at my age, I doubt I would ever be far enough away from civilization to encounter one.  Generally speaking Northern Minnesota will like be the most remote I will get -- .40 would likely be fine for that.

There are videos from YouTubers who claim to hail from Alaska.  As much as anything from YouTube can be believed, they seem to indicate 44 mag and hot 10mm are the preferred bear cartridges up there.  My assumption was that lower 48 grizzlies would be similar.

I'm currently looking for a 10mm pistol, as the price difference isn't quite enough to convince me to compromise and go with .40.

Larry

[JimmyJamesKY]

Here ya go:

https://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/hi-point-handguns/10mm-handgun.php

It's +p rated, and if you empty the mag, you have a handy bludgeon!

 

Of course I'm kidding, although nothing against HiPoint, I own a pistol and a carbine from them, and they are fine for what they cost.  I took a hard look at their 10mm carbine, the 10mm is smoking hot from a 16" barrel, but decided I didn't need another caliber to stock up on.

[LESchwartz]

Yeah, it would be nice if Hi-Point did double stacks . . . no real reason to move from my 44 Mag revolver for the round or two that single stack mags would provide.

I've been looking at used full size Springfield XDMs.  Also Taurus just released an inexpensive full size 10mm.  Unfortunately, nobody has them in stock yet.

Larry

[Danjal]

I'd look into the Springfield or a Glock TBH. I'm not overly enthused with most of the other 10mm offerings for carrying unless you really start spending.

[LESchwartz]

I'd look into the Springfield or a Glock TBH. I'm not overly enthused with most of the other 10mm offerings for carrying unless you really start spending.

I'm not so sure about Glocks, since I would pretty much need to change out the OE barrel for one with regular rifling and a fully supported chamber.

Larry

[Onepoint]

What's wrong with the M&P10s?  Under $600, optic cut and nice flat trigger.

 If I were to buy a larger caliber, I would just go with 10mm, had a .40, but never found a use for it. 

[LESchwartz]

What's wrong with the M&P10s?  Under $600, optic cut and nice flat trigger.

I'm already a XDM fanboy . . . besides from what I can see, a used XDM is a bunch cheaper than the M&P.

Larry

[Danjal]

I'd look into the Springfield or a Glock TBH. I'm not overly enthused with most of the other 10mm offerings for carrying unless you really start spending.

I'm not so sure about Glocks, since I would pretty much need to change out the OE barrel for one with regular rifling and a fully supported chamber.

Larry

No firearms are fully supported. If that was the case you'd have to get the case all the way up before inserting them into the chamber. Glock did add additional supports from gen 4 on. The older gens we're the least supported and that went away fast, particularly when we had the 40 kaboom incidents.

[Frisco Pete]

I have one of the original XDM 10mm with the 4.5” barrel. It is a great shooter and reliable. I can recommend them. A fun bonus is that mine feeds and shoots my .40 S&W rounds just fine 

The main change, and one that is cheap, is putting Talon grip tape on the grip. 10mm recoil is robust enough that you tend to loose your good grip and have to reposition after a round or two. I used the rubberized Talon grip for the XDM but if I did it again I would use the new PRO version. It is a bit more coarse and gives better traction than the standard rubberized version. You have to decide first which size backstrap you are going with before ordering.

The second change to mine was buying an additional 22# recoil spring for use with heavy loads. I installed it and use it for all loads but you can experiment if you want to.

I did have Powder River Precision cut my slide for an optic and install their trigger. Mine was bought before optics-ready versions came out. Of course, these two mods aren’t necessary. The optic is nice for low light or night and better precision at longer ranges (think coyotes).

I have zero experience with the new XDM Elite version, but I imagine it is decent as it is basically an updated XDM.

My friend has the S&W M&P 10 and it has a great grip and good trigger and is optics cut, but although his has worked so far with only a moderate round count of normal rounds, HOWEVER, I have heard that there are a lot of problems with a whole lot of M&P 10mms so I wouldn’t recommend them. Problems that even sending them back to S&W didn’t fix.  In fact I would avoid them like the plague, especially used. I bet there are a lot of guys wanting to dump their lemons. At least 50% of them are just too iffy feeding and there has been no definitive fix.

I don’t know much about the SIG P320 X-Ten 10mm but it is one that I would seriously look at and check the reviews on.

I’ve never cared much for the blocky feel of the big Glocks like 10mm and .45. They work, especially with an upgrade to a 22# spring, but I hate the feel of them and the barrel rifling. The XDM is so much nicer.

I think anyone who seriously suggests a Hi-Point 10mm should be sentenced to carrying one for a week in the Rocky Mountains on his hip while his companions tease him occasionally by letting him handle their smaller, lighter polymer guns. An older gentleman who was looking to save money had a .45 version sent to me (I have an FFL) and said he wanted to carry it in the hills. I genuinely felt sorry for him carrying that low-capacity boat anchor around.

[Danjal]

A fun bonus is that mine feeds and shoots my .40 S&W rounds just fine

That's not something I recommend. Shooting 40 in a 10mm is fully possible, the main issue is it puts more wear on the extractor. That said a lot of tilting barrel pistols are controlled round feeders. The slide pushes the next round in initially then it rises up into the barrel and the extractors prevents it from moving too far forward in the shorter chamber. Your pin will also push the road forward only to let your powder and expanding gasses slam it back against the slide... and extractor. I'm also sure you're getting more chamber pressure out of the deal too. But so far it's been a common thing in 10mm circles with little to no widespread issues, I just don't recommend the practice without the proper barrel.

Also be sure to clean your chamber up after as it will foul like short chambering a cartridge like 38 in a 357 has.

[Onepoint]

I have not looked into 10mm at all, but that's too bad about the M&P10 issues.  I have been liking what they have done with the new series M&Ps.

 On the plus side Springfield has some great packages for the money, 6 mags and pistol for $550 in their gear up packages, sometimes even less, seems like bargain for new pistol.  If I had an inkling to dive into yet another caliber, I would be tempted.

 

[Danjal]

I have not looked into 10mm at all, but that's too bad about the M&P10 issues.  I have been liking what they have done with the new series M&Ps.

 On the plus side Springfield has some great packages for the money, 5 mags and pistol for $550 in their gear up packages, sometimes even less, seems like bargain for new pistol.  If I had an inkling to dive into yet another caliber, I would be tempted.

I'll be honest, their hinged trigger was the biggest thing keeping me from buying Smith pistols. I've bought their revolvers while they had those junk triggers, but after using a sigma, M&P and others they made, I swore off Smith until they finally got their heads out of their behind.