If you like reading, here's a run-down on Russians for beginners:
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Question: “How much is my SKS worth?”
My understanding is that Russian Simonov's generally fall into two separate pricing categories in the U.S.: the 'shootables' and the 'collectibles', and here are several ways you can make that important distinction.
The vast majority of the Russian SKS’s that were imported for sale here over 20 years ago [
now 30 years ago] were 'refurbs' - let's say 95% of them. And the fact is all of those value-priced, refurbished, military surplus rifles arrived in excellent mechanical shape - and they are both accurate and reliable with widely available and inexpensive 7.62x39 surplus ammo. As well, a few
non-refurbished Simonovs came in (sometimes these are called 'as-issued' examples) that were back then arbitrarily sold among all of the refurbs. These are now appreciated by collectors for their
rarely seen original factory-issued condition when they are identified. These fetch a premium far beyond the more common refurbs
if they remain in excellent condition, and
if they have not been altered in any way. Their intrinsic value as collectibles/investments can be lost all too easily through rough handling, or by any permanent modification.
And the rarest examples are usually called 'un-issued' Simonovs: built and crated but never issued [then later exported]. U.S. and Canadian collectors have noted just a literal handful that really ought to be in military museums. More info on these below.
Generally speaking,
almost all of the Russian Simonovs imported to America were at one time issued in the mother country, and so
almost all appear to have seen hard use through a couple decades of the Cold War and at some point these went back for a refurbishment process: either at one of the two original arsenals (Tula and Izhevsk) or at one of several refurb facilities throughout the U.S.S.R. Among these refurbs, a few rifles appear to have undergone merely a light re-shellac, but most others underwent a heavy and thorough rebuild, and some will show multiple rebuild stamps and other evidence of having been sent back at least twice.
Nowadays, we use the term 'refurb' [refurbishment] simply to describe an SKS rifle with
any level and
any combination of these efforts >whatever kicks it out of its original factory-issued condition.
Some examples of the more obvious refurb to the less obvious refurb work are: a new stock (usually laminated, usually with a second cross bolt at the wrist); new black paint covering parts that were originally blued or left in-the-white; a new replacement barrel (usually chrome lined); a replacement rear sight (in-the-white metal, not blued); a new magazine; new gas tube; new bayonet (matte finish); new buttplate; new piston; new springs/pins/screws and etc.
These 'refurb' SKS's were professionally overhauled to mechanically like-new condition, even if their outward appearance was slightly altered. A refurbed Russian SKS rifle not only costs less than a collectible one outright but you won't be decreasing its value a fraction as much by shooting and enjoying them.
One of the
most common refurb signs is a mismatched stock: the original forearm wood is Russian birch hardwood with a dark shellac, and it will
often be left on through refurb work (being rarely damaged through use and being a bitch and a half to remove from the gas tube) while a new laminated birch replacement stock is added, that gets numbered to match the rifle. So, that's a wood mismatch. A clear sign of refurb.
Buyers must beware that Russian SKS rifles in the
refurb category are very often listed for sale as being "mint" and "unfired" and "new" or even "new-in-box". These terms may be accurate for that category, but are not correct for collectibles. One well-known antique firearms website recently listed an obvious refurb -with mismatched wood- as an exceptionally rare "military unissued" example. [Read the section below to better understand these confusing sales terms.]
Be careful to understand what a "new" or "mint" refurb really means: it means a
reconditioned SKS rifle that has been repackaged for export and sale in the U.S., perhaps not yet shot (or shot very little) by its previous owner. At best, it means a like-new, professionally restored SKS. But refurbs are common and
not in the same demand as collectible SKS’s, and should only cost a fraction as much.
On the other hand, some very minty refurbs can still be found for sale in their
original KBI importer's cardboard box with all the various accessories such as sling and oil can and ammo pouch, and nowadays these refurb
complete sets are becoming ever more scarce and are becoming valued and collected in their own right, usually north of $700. [UPDATE 2020: usually north of $1,100]
Russian Simonovs that have >not< been refurbished and so have remained all-original and intact since their Stalin-era production are of real interest to collectors. Please note these were in fact issued to Russian units, and will show gentle aging with very light scratches to the bluing. In fact, the bluing on the buttplate (and there alone) will only be in fair to poor condition - from being paraded and stored on-end. These far more rare factory 'as-issued' examples are valued highly to reflect the central fact they were
not refurbished. The lesson here is that only
refurbished rifles will outwardly appear to be in truly "like new" condition.
There are also several other variables for a collector to weigh. For example, some Arsenal/year combinations are quite rare and therefore more desirable [such as a 1949 Tula, the first year of production]; some collectors might prefer the less frequently seen Izhevsk over a Tula made Simonov; others may prefer an early dark red shellac pattern on the original stock over the later light blonde color; some collectors want a matching year-dated sling. And, of course, it matters whether a rifle remains in excellent condition, and is complete, and has
not been used as a 'shooter' by a previous owner.
Naturally, their price is also affected by how often they are seen for sale: the prices vary as the ever-more limited supply varies. Our overall economy is one factor, but another is unpredictable changes in so-called 'assault weapons' laws. What befalls one large state can affect supply and demand nationwide - either positively or negatively.
So, there are individual value judgments that each buyer makes to select an example for their own collection.. and there are unpredictable external variables that affect pricing. For both these reasons, any suggestion here of some sort of estimated value range for a collectible Russian SKS that you might come across next month would be truly
pointless. That determination will be up to you alone, after you've begun to research collectible examples here on this board and elsewhere online. And then you will make those judgments for your own collection and according to your own 'eye'.
But, as for
refurbs -
I think an all-complete,
excellent condition Russian refurb that will be used as a 'shooter' SKS should run about $325-$350 in the U.S. *[1st UPDATE Oct.2011: about $400-$425] *[2nd UPDATE Feb.2013: about $475-$500] *[3rd UPDATE April 2014: about $550]. *
[4th UPDATE May 2020: about $675-$700]And a refurb in
good condition but having some issues (a mismatched bolt, or deeply scratched wood, or missing a minor part such as the cleaning rod or the sling) ..refurbs that have started down the path towards becoming a 'beater' SKS but that nevertheless are perfectly functional - these
can still be had for under $300. *[1st UPDATE Oct.2011:
can be had under $350] *[2nd UPDATE Feb.2013:
can still be had for under $425] *[3rd UPDATE April 2014: no change]. *
[4th UPDATE May 2020: can still be found for under $500].
The better deals are usually seen on less well-known gun websites with fewer bidders, such as this forum, and at local gun shops - where you have shown an interest in buying a good Russian SKS and leave your contact info. Expect to pay a premium when bidding on GunBroker and Armslist.
The last step down in the value range is for someone's
'beater' SKS or their
'bubba' SKS project - that you might want to restore. [There have been several heroic restorations here, with amazing before/after pictures.] The price range for these troubled firearms are simply too wide to be useful to keep track of ..but perhaps $250 to $450? Bear in mind, though, that some sellers believe they added value with high-cap mags, plastic stock, and Tasco scope, and offer these guns at shockingly high prices.
At all times the
more rare variants - Izhevsk made, or with uncommon receiver markings such as the Tula "Letter Series" Simonovs (read section below), or any signs of the earliest production year of 1949 - add to collector interest simply by the rarity, and will even add to a refurb's value.
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Question: “What types of Russian Simonovs are there?”
Izhevsk-made SKS’s only came out in 1953 and 1954, and so are more scarce. No other obvious difference, but some collectors consider Izhevsk Simonovs to be in a class by themselves. And, collectors who want to fill out all production years will likely pay more for an Izhevsk due to scarcity. Their arsenal stamp on the receiver cover is an arrow in a triangle, in a circle.
The
Tula's were made from 1949 to...unknown. Their arsenal stamp on the receiver cover is an arrow in a star. [But, if there is no arsenal stamped on top of the receiver cover and/or no date 'r' stamp there - then it is a late production Tula, manufactured from late 1955/6 onward. And, if you look closely for it, there is in fact a
small Tula star struck on the left side of the receiver, off to the
right of the serial number.]
The 1949's are particularly sought after in almost any condition, but especially so if they still possess any of the rare and unique features from that first production run at Tula, such as 90-degree gas port, spike bayonet, looped receiver cover latch, and a hand-stencilled Tula arsenal mark on the 1949 receiver cover.
Now, let me clarify that above question mark regarding the end date of Tula production. A late-manufactured Tula may also be a rather rare and desirable variant called a
'Letter Series' Simonov whose serial number is
followed by one of three Cyrillic letters: Д [a 'D'], И [an 'I'], or К [a 'K']. While Tula receiver covers are dated up through 1955, these Letter Series Tulas are found with undated receiver covers. They appear to indicate several, following years of non-standard production in Russia: 1956, 1957, and 1958. This matter has been debated among collectors, and generally agreed upon.
Another debate among collectors is the meaning behind an uncommon receiver stamp. It's a large but lightly struck mark on the receivers of both Tula and Izhevsk Simonovs (therefore added after production) to the left and slightly below the serial: a
numeral 1 inside a triangle. Look closely, it may be obscured by the stock, even below the stock. This mark is most often seen on rifles with unusual horizontal serials stamped into their stock and forearm, making them an uncommon variety of refurb. These had been termed
'ex-DDR' Simonovs for years because of the similarity to serial stampings on the stocks of some East German rifles. But, there was no direct supporting evidence for that attribution. [A premise was that Russian Simonovs were lent to East Germany (Deutsche Demokratische Republik) possibly during the 1961 Berlin Crisis, and accepted and/or refurbished in the DDR with these unique markings, before being returned to Russia.] Another quite logical explanation is that this could be a
Liski (Russian) refurbishment facility stamp. An excellent and well-written analysis -with photos- on the '
ex-DDR/Liski' Simonovs has been offered by member Drago, here:
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=109529.0By the way, if you see on the right side of the receiver "Made in Russia #CCCP12345" -or something- that was stamped on in the U.S. by the importer for marketing. I think it detracts from a collector-grade example because it's 1) not original and 2) pretty garish. But, this addition does not lessen the price for a shooter/refurb SKS.
The four U.S. Russian Simonov importer's marks are CDI, NHM, KBI and CAI, and are more discreetly added to the receiver in that order. CAI being preferred by some collectors - they merely added two English letters on the left side of the receiver to translate the Cyrillic letters in the serial, with the rest of the required information placed on the barrel.
Let me say that whether you get a collectible or a shooter grade - these were all very well made semi-autos; the actions are quite rugged and in fact overbuilt for the 7.62x39 cartridge. This Stalin-approved design is still the parade rifle carried in Red Square today.
In my own opinion, the Russian SKS's made at Tula and Izhevsk in the 1950's are more finely crafted and finished than those from other countries afterward. But, because of the flood of inexpensive Chinese and Yugo models on the gun market, original Russians have historically been priced artificially low in order to be competitive, and are a solid shooting value. Enjoy them as fine historical trophies from the Cold War and, in certain condition, as worthy collectibles whose value keeps rising reliably.
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Question: “What should I look for?”
Refurbs can be identified in several ways - which makes it very easy for you
not to confuse them with as-issued examples:
1) A refurb MAY have a special
refurb stamp on the receiver cover: either a square with a diagonal line through the middle
[/] or a diamond
<> or a diamond with line
<|> or cross
<+>. Also, check the stock for a large
[/] in the wood. If any of these marks are present then it surely is a refurbished rifle. But, even if none of these marks is found
it could still be a refurb!
I'd estimate that about 1/2 of the
known refurbs I've examined actually had no 'refurb stamp' on the receiver cover. This odd fact can confuse both sellers and buyers. These may be priced like an 'as-issued' SKS, but they aren't. An inexperienced buyer might be told that a Simonov for sale is "not a refurb because there is no refurb stamp"... despite other definite signs of refurb that we will examine below.
2)
Refurb paint is an excellent clue. All bolt carriers were finished in-the-white, polished bare metal. So, if you see one has been painted over black then that rifle definitely went back for a refurb no matter what the seller tells you. I
think the same goes for bayonets - if painted blue or black then it's a replacement, but there is some disagreement among collectors there.
Aside from the obvious -the black painted bolt carrier and/or bayonet- the presence of refurb paint on the blued parts of the Simonov may be subtle and easily overlooked, especially in photographs. For example, black paint might be applied to an old barrel or the gas tube, making one slightly blacker/matte than the other; also on a replacement magazine that looks just a tad darker than another; or over a worn-down butt plate (where no one thinks to check) making it look much too new. There are several textures of refurb black paint: matte, shiny, krinkle. Owners and collectors of Russian Simonovs simply refer to all kinds as "BBQ paint".
3) On close inspection, you will find that several small parts of every Russian Simonov are serialed to match the rifle, by hand, using an electro-pen. These hand-stencilled serials are
not evidence of a refurb. [The gas piston, the underside of the rear sight, and other components where the metal cannot be handled by a stamping machine because they are too thin, or on a tight radius curve, or are very small irregular parts.] >Note however that
a hand-stencilled serial number on either the magazine bottom or the trigger guard -on which serials are always factory stamped-
does indicate a forced match replacement part, and therefore makes it a 'refurb' rifle.
4) A
replacement SKS stock is quite definitive in determining that a rifle has undergone refurbishment. [On the other hand, the identification of a factory original SKS stock almost always means a non-refurb rifle, and possibly a collectible example.] So, to cover both types there is a lot to discuss:
Virtually all of the original factory production stocks were made of Russian (also called 'Arctic') Birch hardwood, with a range of shellac colors, and with one cross-bolt. And, since most Russians are refurbs, the vast majority of those original stocks were lost. Keep in mind that both hardwood and laminated Russian Birch stocks were used as replacements in the refurb process, and as a result you'll see both kinds on every year produced - don't let it throw you.
During the early period of Simonov refurbishment, a once-used hardwood stock would be refinished and have its serial number XXXX'd out and restamped to match some other refurbed rifle. You can see where some hardwood stocks were refurbished twice: they have two rows of XXXX's over the serial number. Later on, the refurb facilities switched over to the new laminated stocks [we don't know the year] and these were also serial-matched to their refurbs.
Laminated stocks are a bit heavier and sturdier, and have two crossbolts. The single crossbolt design was found to be a bit weak: a crack may form behind the receiver at the wrist after hard use and the later-made laminated replacement stocks have two - the second one at the wrist. Laminated replacement stocks generally have a lighter shellac color than earlier hardwood stocks. And laminated handguard replacements appear markedly striped.
Note that because handguards are pinned to the gas tube and not easily replaced, some refurbs still wear their original hardwood handguards alongside a new replacement laminated stock - and so these can appear slightly color mismatched. This hardwood/laminate mismatch is a sure sign of a refurb.
If your Russian SKS stock is laminated, then there's an overwhelming likelihood it's a replacement for an original hardwood stock. That makes it a refurb. This is true even if its serial number matches the rifle's because almost all replacement stocks were stamped to match during the refurb process.
[*A note to collectors: keep an eye out for the very few, late Tula rifles that were made with an original production laminated stock, 1955 or possibly the later Letter series - there just aren't enough examples to draw firm generalities about them. Their laminated wood is covered with the factory red shellac for a stunning look. All those I've seen have the tiny inspector's cartouches around the forward crossbolt; these stocks often have just the serial number stamped on.]
A rifle wearing its
factory original hardwood stock in excellent condition -with its original shellac and all the little inspection stamps- is desirable to any collector. Again, this strongly indicates a non-refurb rifle. My own rule of thumb: If it wears an original production stock then the SKS has not been through refurb and so it may be a collectible one, worthy of your closer inspection: overall condition, serial match, completeness, interesting manufacture/year, beauty, etc.
Here's a simple
a-b-c on how to identify a
factory original stock on a Simonov, one central requirement for it being a collectible rifle:
A] Virtually all original production stocks from both Tula and Izhevsk have
three rows of markings on the left side: the arsenal stamp, the year followed by an 'r', and the serial number with both Cyrillic letters and Roman numerals.
B] There will be
no XXXX's over an old serial number on an original, non-refurbished stock.
C] Original hardwood stocks almost always have just one cross bolt, with lightly stamped
inspector's cartouches arranged around it [while original late-production/letter series Tula stocks that are also found on as-issued rifles will be laminated, and will almost always have two crossbolts, and will almost always show inspection cartouches.]
[*Note to collectors: a few rare exceptions to this otherwise excellent rule of thumb have been uncovered. A handful of Russians that were certainly refurbed do appear to be wearing their own original but
refinished stocks, very lightly sanded and reshellacked, and they have lost their light crossbolt cartouches. These quasi-refurbs are difficult to identify and value, but rather unique and therefore of some interest.]
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Question: “What
else determines price?”
After you know which category the Russian falls into, there's
always bargaining:
For a refurb, I'd start deducting on the rifle’s use and overall condition, especially the stock. After that deduct about $40 to replace a missing bayonet, maybe $15 for a missing cleaning rod, maybe $15 for a missing cleaning kit. On the other hand, you should add more for an original SKS sling - and if it's a year-dated sling with a hammer&sickle emblem then much more. But, add nothing for an AK sling which is quite common on refurbs. You can educate yourself on these items by searching this site for pictures from members, and on Yooper John's webpage.
All things being equal, buyers don't seem to add any value to one kind of stock over the other on a refurb - either a replacement hardwood stock with XXXX'd-out numbers (a visible history to the rifle), or a newer laminated stock. They seem to sell at about the same price, because while many prefer the more authentic early '50's look with the reddish shellac on birch hardwood others opt for laminated durability on their shooter SKS.
Generally speaking, aftermarket accoutrements like scope mount, plastic stock, and extended magazines do not increase the value of a refurb Russian SKS, being so common, and they will subtract severely from the price of any collectible Russian because it is no longer in "as-issued" guise.
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I need to place one red-alert here on the SKS design. There are
two safety concerns that may be unknown to new owners:
1] the safety lever when ON merely blocks the trigger from depressing. It does NOT block the sear from moving. Whenever you have a loaded SKS, even with the safety ON, a good jar or jolt or dropping the rifle can result in a discharge.
2] Russians made from late 1950 onward were the variant that omitted the firing pin spring, and it's free-floating. A free-floating pin will dent the primer each time it loads a round after firing. This is not a problem with imported milsurp Russian ammo because they have hard military-style primers, but when using modern commercial ammo with soft primers there can be dangerous mishaps. There are many reports on this forum of slam fires, and even some full-auto discharges of all rounds in the magazine.
>If either of these issues concern you, please look into Murray's firing pin fix and Kivaari's sear/safety modifications on the commercial pages of this forum.
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My own understanding of some tricky terms commonly used to sell Russian SKS's:
un-issued/non-issued : Almost always a false representation. At time of writing, I've never even seen pictures of an imported milsurp Russian SKS that was actually "unissued".
[EDITED Feb.2013] A handful of exceptions to this good rule have recently been noted: several in the U.S. and perhaps a handful in Canada. In the U.S. market, one of these Simonovs came from among the one-off examples assembled at the very end of Tula production, apparently crated and never issued, with a no Star/no Date receiver cover.
To identify: on these truly un-issued examples you will not see any wear to the buttplate's original blueing from being rested on-end during its service life, whereas even collectable as-issued examples have significant blueing loss there alone. Please note that, as we often hear,
it is the exception that proves the Rule ...And you are far more likely to be sold a simple refurb under this incredible description.
as-issued : the collector's prize. A rifle virtually the way it came off the production line at Tula or Izhevsk. All the serials match. All the parts are original. No refurbishment marking. Complete and nothing missing. Excellent condition overall (with the typical exception of heavy wear and missing blueing
on the buttplate alone). These usually show some gentle handling, with small and very light metal scratching. These should appear to have aged. Remember, if it appears "like new" to you then it's probably a refurb.
non-refurb : never take this description at face value. If you've read through the comments above then you now know more than most sellers. The truth of this key point is up to you. The seller is implying the firearm is an 'as-issued' Russian, like above, but without making the explicit commitment. Often, a seller uses this subjective term based on their own imperfect knowledge >but maybe he doesn't see that it does have a refurb mark [or even knows what one looks like]< or he claims that without that stamp it cannot be a refurb. Maybe the seller can't identify a replacement part such as an in-the-white rear sight; or doesn't understand what all the black paint is for; and maybe he calls it a "non-refurb" just because he sees it has a matching serial struck on its replacement laminate stock.
And anyway, a "non-refurb" rifle description might not even be describing a complete rifle (as in, 'Hey, where's the bayonet?'). Also, the previous owner could have used an actual "non-refurb"/as-issued SKS for a bubba project [and that's always sad news] yet still calls it a "non-refurb". So, even if that attribution once was correct and it was
not sent back in for refurb work in the U.S.S.R., who really knows what it is now? Treat this overused term with real skepticism. You should make the determination, not the seller.
refurb/re-arsenalled : these are the most common. These have been back to the factory or one of the old U.S.S.R.'s refurb facilities before import to the U.S., and it should be a simple task for
any well-read beginner to differentiate these from rare 'as-issued' Russian Simonovs and avoid mistakenly paying collectible prices for a shooter rifle -> the rookie mistake.
all-matching : not a very helpful way to describe a Russian SKS. I am dubious when I hear this term because the replacement laminated stocks on refurbs
are almost always numbered to match the rifle, and this does confuse amateur sellers and buyers. At best, this term means there are no >obvious< replacement parts, and that kind of implies it is a non-refurb rifle, but don't hold your breath!
unfired/new-in-box : these are important terms usually referring to mint status on collectible firearms and are totally misapplied when describing imported refurb milsurp weapons. These terms only mean that after their refurbishment and importation and re-packaging, the rifles have never been shot. That's all. It may look brand spanking new out of a box, but only because the Soviet refurb process brought these rifles back up to excellent mechanical condition and appearance.
Most of the imported Simonovs have seen Cold War service, use and abuse, and have been refurbished - some more than once, and then were exported, and repackaged, and owned before you. So...
-
caveat emptor-
