Bombing Iran: Round 2

[Onepoint]

I have no moral issue bombing Irans leadership and military, IMO they have it coming and have for a long time. Recent uprising there gave Trump an avenue for regime change, but how quickly that has turned into boots instead of bombs. 

 Unlike Libertarians I am not anti war, I am anti stupid though, and there is no positive outcome from entering Iran. 25 something years ago I argued for that experiment in Iraq, and still think containment of threat is stupid where it can be eliminated. If we were going to bomb and sanction periodically just to keep them from advancing, which is war, then lets not keep it up for decades, decide it.  But its not ever simple when people want power, and I'm not talking about our targets, but about here and those who would use our loss as their gain, work toward and leverage it to get into power, not to end any war or policy, but use that newly gained power here against opposition.  And here we are, with our greatest and potentially deadly threats domestic.  But I really expected a little more, or should say less from Trump. We'll see how it plays out, but trajectory is not looking great right now.

 I still think this is strategic in dismantling Chinas ally and resource base prepping for major war with them over Taiwan. Lets not pretend its not what they are doing as well.  It's a valid plan, if you don't tie up your own resources to a point that you become ineffective in anything but that, and occupying Iran could quickly turn into Afghanistan 2.0 for us.   This could have been the game changer for midterms and 2028, either way it goes.

 Or maybe its about BRiCs as well.  We'll see if attention gets turned to Brazil.

[JimmyJamesKY]

This may be some of that, or all of that.  Maybe we should have just given Trump that damn Nobel Peace Prize, IDK.

A war based economy requires a perpetual state of war.  We stopped fighting wars to win them since at least Vietnam.  Afghanistan was the gift that kept on giving, until the people lost their taste for it.  We spent 20 years and gave trillions to the MilIndCompx to take Afghanistan from the Taliban, to leave it to... The Taliban.

Are we trying to win a war with China?  Maybe.  Are we trying to inflate the price of oil? Maybe.  Who TF knows at this point.  Trump doesn't know what Trump is going to do next, so I won't try to guess at his motives.  We've stopped talking about prosecuting pedophiles though.

There is a rumor from spook John Kiriakou that Israel told Trump that if we didn't bomb Iran, they were going to unilaterally use nuclear weapons against Iran.  Given Bibi's 'accelerationist' worldview, this isn't too hard to imagine.  This can't really be true though, as Israel doesn't have nuclear weapons, so it's just scuttlebutt.

And, don't forget, no matter how many American lives this costs... The DOW is at 50K baby!! 

[Onepoint]

Its not about oil price, its about oil resource control, as it always has been in the middle east, because its probably not about all the wonderful people and beautiful vistas there.

As far as theories go, especially about Israel and the US, they are cheaper than greenhouse gas emissions, and less useful.  But for whatever reason, we are in it now.

[Workingzombie]

I am concerned that instigating a conflict for regime change never goes as planned. So many unknowns. It may unite and embolden the rest of the Islamic radicals, even if they are at odds with one another. If the Iranian people don't step up 100% now, then they never will throw off the yoke of their Islamic oppressors.

[Danjal]

...its about oil resource control...

It's also about a hostile regime that is getting nukes and ICBMs to strike us with them. Lets face it, Iran isn't the sanest player in the world's stage when it comes to levels of aggression.

[Onepoint]

Yeah, but color me skeptical about their nukes. If they had them Israel would be a smoking hole before us.  But I don't care what the reasoning is, they had it coming.  Militant Islam is incompatible with the west in any way and they exported enough of that to earn the attention.

[JimmyJamesKY]

Yeah, they F'd around and found out for sure.  I'm not against this per se, just not sure what line of BS to go with.  The most sensible one is resource acquisition and control.  If we control Venezuela and Iran, we would have some serious leverage over China's access to oil.

I'm just wary of our own government. Our military misadventures never seem to work out.  As long as the pedophile elite get their cut, they couldn't care less about the negative consequences of the peasantry of which I am a part.  I also can't shake the feeling that we're being led by Israel, and not the other way around.  I don't like that another country has more influence over my representatives than I do, but it's certainly true.  I realize not every conspiracy is true, but there is usually a kernel of truth at the center.  I thought the PizzaGate people were bats**t crazy, but apparently not.

It does seem we are moving the pieces into place for the final realignment, and that's without considering the spiritual aspect of the conflict between good and evil.  I try to leave religion out of my geopolitical calculus, but there is a battle going on between good and evil, as there ever has been.  The revelation of the Epstein Class of ruling elites shows just how strong a grip evil has on the governments of the world right now.  When covering for each others misdeeds is the only bipartisan issue agreed upon, your nation is in dire straits, regardless of military might.

God, bless America.  She needs you now more than ever.  Amen.

[Onepoint]

We are being ruled by pedophiles, it's pretty much incontestable now.  But so much smoke is thrown up, no one can put evidence to it at street level, (thanks AI and propagandists)

So like much of the world we have become a duality in one country, those who would hang them, and those who cover for them.  And Iran is not so different in that, partitioned those who make it work and keep the lights on who want to be rid of the mullahs, they have brought nothing but misery. But the ruling class continues at the apathy among the masses and coercion of those who aren't.  But dang if the world doesn't keep changing, seemingly for the worse despite good intentions and initial improvements.

[Danjal]

Yeah, but color me skeptical about their nukes. If they had them Israel would be a smoking hole before us.  But I don't care what the reasoning is, they had it coming.  Militant Islam is incompatible with the west in any way and they exported enough of that to earn the attention.

It's not a question of if, but when.

[thresher_593]

From what I can gather, the Iranians were given a deal that would provide them with free nuclear fuel for power production purposes in perpetuity.
The Iranians said "No, we want to be able to enrich, just a little bit of material. For medical purposes."
They were told "No enriched material. Not now. Not ever."
They were told that the US would take action to stop their enrichment program.
Apparently they didn't think we would strike because 7 administrations have gone by and there hasn't been much of an attempt to put the brakes on their nuclear ambitions.
Until now. They're dealing with a different breed of cat.
Why did they need nuclear power with all the oil and gas they have?
Why were they so big on secrecy if their program was just to build power plants?
Why build the power plants hundreds of miles from the population centers where they would need thousands of miles of transmission infrastructure.
Why can't they show anyone the plans for the nuclear power plants they were supposedly building?
Why did the need so many missiles and drones? Not to deliver electricity, that's for sure.
Make no mistake about it, this was a weapons program from start to finish. If we hadn't taken it our today, sometime in our future there would be mushrooms growing over New York or Washington DC.
I don't relish war. I've seen too much of it in my life. But if you have to have it, it's better to have it on OUR terms rather than our opponents.
Just my opinion but the Japanese strategy in the attack on Pearl Harbor was correct. Their execution was faulty.
I'm just hoping we can pull this one off with minimum loss of American lives and, hopefully, the Iranians will come up with leadership that doesn't chant "Death to the US" 5 times a day.

[Onepoint]

If left alone they might have developed a workable weapon at some point with NK aid, but they were never going to be left alone, although it doesn't help the cause when democrat regimes here fund it for them.  And Israel would not allow them to get one, which is why they have been bombing them periodically for a decade now.  Apparently intel told them the programs were buried deep in a nuke proof bunkers, which is why they needed us and our bunker busters.  I think its arguable they could field a weapon soon much less anytime, but just the material posed a threat being as belligerent as they are and when when they export weapons and tech to groups who would kill anyone on the planet they were pointed at including their Sunni neighbors. 

The ultimate answer is not destroy their weapons, but the regime.  Trump and others sensed an opportunity, and the entire world is probably waiting on the edge of their seat to see if they can throw them off. But despite early success at destabilizing and even decapitating the leadership, the Khomeini regime is still in control.

 And now we see the reprisal attacks from them that have surprised some with their effectiveness to get through our and Israel's top air defense.  And that's just starting.  Sleeper cells active 3rd party groups are now mobilized.  If Trump hoped for a quick win, he's likely to be disappointed.  So the question is, how far do we go, which may be moot, as congress is unlikely to authorize use of force beyond the initial since he ignored them to start with.

[JimmyJamesKY]

This is some pretty creepy imagery.  Not only were they two weeks away from a nuclear bomb, they are burning the religious symbols of our government elite:

https://www.iranintl.com/en/202602128764

I'm not surprised they were bombed less than a month later.  The Epstein class take their religion very seriously.  They have always considered the U.S. "government" as the Great Satan, but revelation that elite members of our leadership are involved in the sexploitation of children doesn't help our case.

I love America, was raised as a patriot, and now that we're at war with Iran, I stand behind my country.  In the grander scheme of things, we battle not against flesh and blood, but against spiritual wickedness in high places.  Much of that spiritual wickedness is embedded in our own government, and certainly in the government of Iran AND Israel. 

I still agree that this war is part of a global realignment of the power structure, but we the people have to provide the blood and treasure while the elite rulers enjoy their game of Risk.

I have started putting government in quotation marks, because we are not governed, we are ruled. Our consent is no longer wanted nor needed.  We are just a resource to be used for their benefit.

[Danjal]

If left alone they might have developed a workable weapon at some point with NK aid,

Or Russia, China, etc. They already have been sold or given missiles by all three in some form.

[Onepoint]

Missiles yes, but the payload tech has mostly being shared by NK.  I don't think China is that interested in a nuclear armed fanatical govt who consider them infidels as much as us, but are dependent on their oil with the only thing in common is us as an enemy.  They are happy to keep them armed enough to be leverage on the west, much like NK. But only want them at force parity with their neighbors.  If Russia or China really wanted them nuked up, they would have them by now.  That's not to say they would not ever get or develop them indigenously, but they have to have help in doing so, which NK provides more than anyone else.


 JimmyJamesKY

Much of that spiritual wickedness is embedded in our own government, and certainly in the government of Iran AND Israel.

Yes, as corrupt and vile as our "elite" are, Iran has no high moral ground, certainly not any more than us. If in the end we ultimately fight over the principles each side represents, then they certainly have no moral ground at all.  The ayatollahs were the epitome of grievance culture, and have punished their countrymen for it for 40+ years.

[Danjal]

Missiles yes, but the payload tech has mostly being shared by NK.  I don't think China is that interested in a nuclear armed fanatical govt who consider them infidels as much as us, but are dependent on their oil with the only thing in common is us as an enemy.  They are happy to keep them armed enough to be leverage on the west, much like NK. But only want them at force parity with their neighbors.  If Russia or China really wanted them nuked up, they would have them by now.  That's not to say they would not ever get or develop them indigenously, but they have to have help in doing so, which NK provides more than anyone else.

China gave the Iranians research reactors and tech expertise in the 90's and direct sales due to economic pressure. China is very much an exporting nation getting rich off other countries, they protect it with fervor. One that we'll see here soon because Iran exported 90% or so of its oil to China.

China has also been using industry contacts to smuggle in nuclear tech and materials well after the sanctions in '97.
https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/karl-lee-charged-manhattan-federal-court-using-web-front-companies-evade-us-sanctions

Chinese assistance in the development of a uranium conversion facility at Isfaha. Reactor and centrifuge blueprints. After that they're treading grey areas for nuclear "power" use. Over 100 Chinese companies have been sanctioned since 2018 due to infractions of nuclear, drone, and nuclear assistance from Chiona alone into Iran.
https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/MASTER-Sanctions-chart-508-Updates-Aug-2023-1.pdf

They never quit; they just made it more of a roundabout issue for Iran getting nuclear capabilities. Sure the Norks have been providing more assistance, more than likely through China and Russia. It benefits the Chinese for the US to put pressure on Iran and NK in the way of trade and tech transfers all while shielding both nations form the UN and other world government entities.