Author Topic: 100% US parts SKS?  (Read 9438 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

CamoDeafie

  • Deceitful Seller
  • SKS Sniper
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
100% US parts SKS?
« on: March 31, 2012, 04:52:16 PM »
is it possible to make an SKS copy with 100% US made parts, by having a CNC milled receiver made in US, with barrel threaded for either AK or AR or something commonly available, and US wood stock, and accepts either US made magazines or something like that, in various calibers? (or would it be simpler to stick to the classic 7.62x39 instead?) just wondering if any company would be able to purchase the tooling/set ups from the sources like one of the Baltic States or China (I somehow do not see THAT happening, what with the current suspension of importing new Norinco stuff...).... Just wondering as to the legality of all this..I mean, 10 or less game, or 100% US made somehow...granted, it would be EXPENSIVE to make a limited run of US made receivers but....I wonder how many would be willing to get the US Receiver and barrel assembly, and be able to run 100% US made parts and not have to worry about 922R, especially if all the parts are what you could in theory, get from current vendors..such as the gas assembly, the bolt assembly, bolt carrier, trigger system, stocks....heck someone could make something specifically for the Bullpup setups and offer it as an US complete firearm that just so happens to operate the same as an SKS? Are there any current patents or copyrights on the SKS design?
I mean, for 922R; BATF lists 14-17 parts for the SKS right? lets say you have the following US made parts/assemblies;
1. Receiver-Receiver block and rear cover
2. Barrel
3. Gas system-block, tube, piston/rod
4. Stock assembly-stock and handguard
5. Trigger assembly-trigger frame, trigger, springs, sear, disconnector bar, any other?
6. Magazine assembly-body, floor plate, spring,
7. Sights
8. Muzzle Device
9. Bolt Carrier assembly-carrier and handle,
10. Bolt-bolt itself, firing pin, ejector, spring(s)
Now; with these 10 subassemblies; one could make a 100% US made SKS and not fall foul of any legal issues, unless someone out there has a patent/copyright on the design itself? Could it be marketed as a Hunting rifle similar to the Belgian B.A.R. sporters and the Remington 75 Sporters? I mean, the SKS seems to be pretty popular for hunting, so having a 100% American made Soviet design could make sense in a weird way.....?
sbtactical.wordpress.com
-custom SKS gear pouches

coopdog

  • Board Supporter
  • SKS Gunsmith
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
Re: 100% US parts SKS?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2012, 05:18:09 PM »
Anything is possible with enough time and machining ability.
I'm tired of reading about SHTF.   I am planning for the more likely scenario SSDD (Same Sh_it, Different Day).

CamoDeafie

  • Deceitful Seller
  • SKS Sniper
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
Re: 100% US parts SKS?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2012, 05:22:19 PM »
ok; would there be a big enough market? I noticed there's one for the bullpup and all those 922R parts/tweaks.... if one were to make a chassis that would enable a bullpup layout without more labor....or one that would utilize existing American barrels and calibers......(or both)..would there be alot of people lining up to buy them?
sbtactical.wordpress.com
-custom SKS gear pouches

rich

  • Board Supporter
  • SKS Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 8288
Re: 100% US parts SKS?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2012, 05:30:16 PM »
What would the sales price be?
"Our father's God to Thee, Author of liberty, to Thee we sing: Long may our land be bright with freedom's holy light; Protect us by Thy might, Great God, our King!"

CamoDeafie

  • Deceitful Seller
  • SKS Sniper
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
Re: 100% US parts SKS?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2012, 05:45:20 PM »
i'm not sure myself; as I don't have a machine shop on hand unfortunately...although I AM considering trying to get one up and running... what would be the price point that you guys would be comfortable with, or lets say its offered only as a receiver and gas block for AK barrels; would people be interested in buying em? (are  US made bolts and bolt carriers available?)
sbtactical.wordpress.com
-custom SKS gear pouches

coopdog

  • Board Supporter
  • SKS Gunsmith
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
Re: 100% US parts SKS?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2012, 07:46:24 PM »
The cost of manufacturing an SKS in the U.S. would be too high to make the project viable.  If it were possible, it would already have been done.
I'm tired of reading about SHTF.   I am planning for the more likely scenario SSDD (Same Sh_it, Different Day).

WDfrmTN

  • Board Supporter
  • SKS Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 5573
  • Ah....what the heck were we talking about?
Re: 100% US parts SKS?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2012, 10:16:13 PM »
The cost of manufacturing an SKS in the U.S. would be too high to make the project viable.  If it were possible, it would already have been done.
Yup.
Quote
"Life's tough...it's even tougher if you're stupid."
John Wayne

"Seek to understand before you seek to be understood."

"Hew to the line and let the chips fall where they may."

CamoDeafie

  • Deceitful Seller
  • SKS Sniper
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
Re: 100% US parts SKS?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2012, 10:23:23 PM »
if its gonna cost up to $300 to get a n SKS to tacticool configuration/922R compliant/Tapco';d out/Bullpup'd in addition to the costs of the SKS itself; might it not be worth it to just manufacture a receiver and gas block that takes AK barrels and magazines, and is 99%-100% compatible with US made everything else? like offering a starter kit that allows one to get a complete Murray's trigger system, Tapco bolt system, tapco stock or US made wood stocks, Tapco gas tube system or something like that, and so on...and still be able to have an factory original SKS and a like-new US made SKS kit that pretty much have 1-4 imported parts? by that I mean like say, a SKS with US made almost everything.....or in a bullpup stock, and takes AK mags and uses US made parts rather than imported parts...?or just a receiver and barrel, and that there gets away from the 922R by being a firearm made in the United States....if the Receiver IS US made?
sbtactical.wordpress.com
-custom SKS gear pouches

WDfrmTN

  • Board Supporter
  • SKS Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 5573
  • Ah....what the heck were we talking about?
Re: 100% US parts SKS?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2012, 10:33:52 PM »
Tapco Bolts are pretty much kaput, unless you find a used one.
But meeting 922r isn't that costly.
Quote
"Life's tough...it's even tougher if you're stupid."
John Wayne

"Seek to understand before you seek to be understood."

"Hew to the line and let the chips fall where they may."

CamoDeafie

  • Deceitful Seller
  • SKS Sniper
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
Re: 100% US parts SKS?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2012, 10:57:15 PM »
with 4 parts, it isnt costly, no I agree..however, it can be sort of annoying if one want to mod their SKS with US parts, they have to meet 922R...does it matter if one were to have an US made receiver, yet everything else is imported, and its still not quite an imported rifle? kinda like those AK and G3 and HK parts kits? I guess what I am getting at is, if there is a market for it, would it make it more "worth it" to bypass 922R by having a receiver/barrel assembly that is US made, therefore having an "US made firearm" according to what I could find of the ATF rules?
EDIT: I mean, I am always seeing two sides to the whole SKS thing, the purists who thinks they should be left as imported/made, and the ones who wants to make it tactical/cool/different/custom/modernized....there are not many SKS being sold these days, and they are continually rising in price compared to other things....so, what better to appease BOTH sides than to have an US made SKS receiver/barrel that takes all US made parts or both foreign and US parts, while leaving the original imported SKS alone? ;)
sbtactical.wordpress.com
-custom SKS gear pouches

BillyBang

  • What did you expect?
  • Global Moderator
  • SKS Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 10369
  • Si vis pacem, para bellum
Re: 100% US parts SKS?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2012, 11:22:36 PM »
with 4 parts, it isnt costly, no I agree..however, it can be sort of annoying if one want to mod their SKS with US parts, they have to meet 922R...does it matter if one were to have an US made receiver, yet everything else is imported, and its still not quite an imported rifle? kinda like those AK and G3 and HK parts kits? I guess what I am getting at is, if there is a market for it, would it make it more "worth it" to bypass 922R by having a receiver/barrel assembly that is US made, therefore having an "US made firearm" according to what I could find of the ATF rules?
EDIT: I mean, I am always seeing two sides to the whole SKS thing, the purists who thinks they should be left as imported/made, and the ones who wants to make it tactical/cool/different/custom/modernized....there are not many SKS being sold these days, and they are continually rising in price compared to other things....so, what better to appease BOTH sides than to have an US made SKS receiver/barrel that takes all US made parts or both foreign and US parts, while leaving the original imported SKS alone? ;)

I can see you haven't been into manufacturing for a while, or not at all.
To make receivers and barrels for an SKS now days with the way materials cost
and what labor would be, would make the rifle cost prohibitive.

It's way cheaper to replace stocks, gas pistons and trigger part that add
up to total a couple hundred bucks than receivers or barrels because
they would still only count as 2 parts so you still would be short a couple of parts.
IOW: The receiver doesn't make the rifle "US made" nor does the barrel.
The fact that it has more than 10 ATF listed foreign parts is what makes it foreign.

Americans love solutions to nonexistent problems. --- Danjal

CamoDeafie

  • Deceitful Seller
  • SKS Sniper
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
Re: 100% US parts SKS?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2012, 11:28:58 PM »
it HAS been a while since I last worked in the Manufacturing sector..what with being laid off due to the economy right after finishing college......huh. I was under the impression that it didnt matter if the parts were foreign or not, the receiver, if it was US made, meant its legal and one doesnt need to play the 922R game... well dang there goes the idea..... I personally do think it is highway robbery to charge people $450 for a plastic receivered Kel-Tec that operates very similarly to an AK..... but that is just my opinion. with CNC and materials costs, it should be quick work of the receiver with a 3-axis, maybe 4 axis milling machine and punching out 10 pars per hour......using the same quality of steel or better as found in stock SKS....that would make it rather cheaper than manually machining it one at a time...
sbtactical.wordpress.com
-custom SKS gear pouches

cvasqu03

  • Board Supporter
  • SKS Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 6327
Re: 100% US parts SKS?
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2012, 08:43:19 AM »
There's a reason the SKS and AK were built mostly in places where there was plenty of slave labor to go around.  These are very labor intensive machined parts.  Heck even the Soviets eventually modified the AK to use a stamped barrel because even by their standards it was incredibly inefficient to machine out a receiver.  I suppose if someone were to come up with a way of precision machining metal that were incredibly cheaper it might be a viable project, but even with our existing technology I doubt it could be cheap enough to make a profit. 
I am the one they call Cesar.

zoom6zoom

  • SKS Gunsmith
  • *
  • Posts: 1486
  • Mornings Suck
Re: 100% US parts SKS?
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2012, 10:25:28 AM »
Quote
I was under the impression that it didnt matter if the parts were foreign or not, the receiver, if it was US made, meant its legal and one doesnt need to play the 922R game.
If that were the case, we wouldn't have to play the game when building AK kits. But we do.
Certified M16/AR15 /SIG Pistol Armorer
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer

CamoDeafie

  • Deceitful Seller
  • SKS Sniper
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
Re: 100% US parts SKS?
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2012, 11:17:10 AM »
heres the thing I don't quite get; people say its labor intensive, Cncs takes most of the labor out, and we are seeing AR 15 builds going much cheaper than in the old days....and they have more machined parts than the SKS.....now, were one to make primarily US made receivers, us made bolt assemblies and parts, and uses AK barrels, couldnt one have like 5-6 foreign parts and be in compliance, and still have enough for a stock imported SKS? I mean, I've priced out the AR15 builds myself....I could order parts to make one for just around $700 to 750 in the configuration I want, sure I could get by with cheaper and end at $450-550 using all used parts..... surely the SKS is not as heavily machined as the AR15...... here, its more expensive to get an AK than it is to get a Saiga, and its more expensive to get an AR thats already assembled; and the supply of cheap SKS IS drying up in some places.....in fact, the last gun show, the cheapest one I saw was $350ish for a beat up one.....and the nice ones were $450..while the AKs were $650+ and the cheapest Saigas were $410ish......it was fortunate I was able to snag the $240 Chinese SKS in a private sale... my point is; yes in the old days before CNC and automated machining, it would be very labor intensive to make the SKS (same goes for AR15) but now with the technology to knock out parts by the hundreds from a single machine in one day......the economy of scale simply says it would be much cheaper than making em one at a time with a manual milling machine which made the old SKS and the reason Norinco went to later stamped receivers for the SKS before going back to milling in the 80s and 90s...
sbtactical.wordpress.com
-custom SKS gear pouches