When American mujahideen attack

[salif08]

living 10 blocks from the mosque in san diego that some of the pilots/bad muslims attended that flew planes into the WTC on 9/11/2001 i keep as much ammo on hand as i can afford. the morning of 9/11/2001 they were in the mosque parking lot cheering and celebrating. as i had not heard the news yet or seen a tv i was kinda bothered by images on tv of why they may have been celebrating. i was in nat guard and was walking san diego international airport less than a month later on active duty. M16A2 with 20 cartriges in rifle and another 20 in magazine in right pouch on LBE. spent 6 1/2 months walking lindberg field/ SD Airport.
i leave them alone and they leave me alone so far.

I'm sorry to hear that they behaved that way and it absolutely disgusts me. 

[salif08]

I don't think you tube videos are going to do much for you if there is an attacks as being discussed.  Most Christians and people in general are openly speaking up and even counter protesting the hateful so called Christians like the Westboro Baptist Church.

We are not seeing anything like that from the Islamic community against things like CAIR, or cases of Sharia law being deferred to in US law,  nor do we hear anything about radicalized mosques, and then rarely from Muslims, until after attacks come from members of them.

I get your point.  But in one video a sheik (spelling?) is on CNN condemning all such terrorism.  Youtube is just another medium.  That video and the other with compiled news footage of huge protests against terrorism- at Mecca, I might add- were sourced from much more widely watched media than Youtube.  My point is, Muslims ARE speaking out against it but people have to be willing to listen and pay attention to their voices.  I feel that the real problem is most people having already made up their mind about Islam based on the actions of an extreme few and now will not listen to the majority.

[salif08]

Wish more 'good muslims' would denounce A.Q.   Part of why 'we' are a little gun-shy about Islam is that....they don't.     

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL-T33JPGkU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ode2eHBC4hs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgJV-7NYGgA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NYzs8IjxhY

If seeing me simply post several youtube videos in response makes you roll your eyes, I know you probably won't watch them all.  At least watch the last one.

I hear you.  Christians living in Middle Eastern lands probably feel the same way - that nobody will listen!  And they are not given the chance to be heard (to tell the world about how they are being oppressed).  Many fear for their very lives, unlike what Muslims in the US face.   So - I suggest the Muslim Community do some serious outreach. YouTube won't do it.  Ask Alex Jones - that forum sort of lacks credibility.  And it's a little late, since the main reason we're pissed is from over a decade ago...

The Tea Party feels the same way, too.  Millions of us out there, but the media makes it appear that there are about 2,000 of us huddling in someone's barn, plotting the rise of the South again )  I try to take individuals on an individual basis - something my own country will not do (I am a "Teabagger"). 

I'm sorry if many can't feel a lot of sympathy for the 'unheard Muslims' in America....maybe it's just the media, but we see a real lack of even basic human rights in Muslim nations, yet see that THIS nation does everything to deny that there is a real terror problem within that religion ("workplace violence", y'know).  I would never DREAM of spouting my Christianity from the rooftops of Damascus (safely)...forgive me for not being that concerned that Islam isn't being heard properly in the USA.   It's not for lack of assistance at the highest levels!     I'm actually shocked that anti-Islam sentiment is not higher - they hate us over there (support of Israel, drones, bombings...), and we should be quite hateful of them here after 9/11 1 and 2.

The best way to receive the support of this nation is to be gay, atheist, Islamic, bisexual, female/abused or a minority.    As none of those, I just don't have the heart to feel very bad.   

As ideologically aligned with the tea party (though I refuse to claim any party affiliation based on where it leads if the dems and reps serve as examples), I feel that cringe every time they are cast as extremists as well.  As a gun owner I feel it.  Also, I'm roughly (there are two which categories you listed which my identification with is not complete) three of the things in your final list (no, I'm not gay, bisexual, or female/abused) and still don't feel too terribly supported by my nation.  Not because I don't acknowledge the things that they've instituted to "help" those groups, but because I see most of it as a farce and not actual support.  I mean, I'd rather have a wealthy white male president that actually made sound, responsible actions as if he cared about the state of American minorities than a minority president who just fakes it and couldn't care less, which is what we have.

I also agree that Westerners in Islamic countries probably experience the same thing.  And, I would expect that in those countries I would be seen as such by the local population.  I mean, by Allah, what kind of grown man wears shorts when it's only 125 F outside? So, I just have to play the hand I've been dealt.

Finally,  I want to say that my whole point really is what you said:  to take individuals on an individual basis.  In a similar conversation on another forum, I pointed out to someone who said they would shoot anyone who looked "Islamic" on sight (at their property) in a post SHTF situation that 1)  Islam is a religion not a race and I've met white American Muslims that you would never know outwardly were Muslims until they told you, and 2) Good, godfearing white Americans are just as capable of smiling at you to enter your home "looking for shelter" and kill the men and rape the women when you least expect it.  Individual basis.  You should require everyone to EARN your trust and grant it blindly to no one and, conversely,  blindly condemn no one.  After all, the guy in the turban may simply be coming by to share his own supplies with his community in hard times as is instructed in his own religious scripture.

I hope I've not too terribly antagonized anyone here as I enjoy these boards and appreciate you guys being honest with your opinions on this matter in this thread.

[Gibson_GM]

......
Finally,  I want to say that my whole point really is what you said:  to take individuals on an individual basis.  In a similar conversation on another forum, I pointed out to someone who said they would shoot anyone who looked "Islamic" on sight (at their property) in a post SHTF situation that 1)  Islam is a religion not a race and I've met white American Muslims that you would never know outwardly were Muslims until they told you, and 2) Good, godfearing white Americans are just as capable of smiling at you to enter your home "looking for shelter" and kill the men and rape the women when you least expect it.  Individual basis.  You should require everyone to EARN your trust and grant it blindly to no one and, conversely,  blindly condemn no one.  After all, the guy in the turban may simply be coming by to share his own supplies with his community in hard times as is instructed in his own religious scripture.

I hope I've not too terribly antagonized anyone here as I enjoy these boards and appreciate you guys being honest with your opinions on this matter in this thread.

No antagonism - well-thought debate is great, and you've said/done nothing wrong whatsoever!  If SHTF, I'd be a lot more worried about ANY person who was armed or coming into my area rather than what color his skin was, LOL.   

Well, Salif, taking people 1 on 1 is about all anyone CAN do, isn't it?     In general, we ALL pre-judge what other groups are like...some locals in Syria or Abbottabad probably would make some assumptions about what a guy that looks like me is doing walking down their street.  And many here will assume some things about a brown-skinned M.E. looking guy doing the same.

The real 'interaction' occurs when you ACT.  And HOW.   I feel we're ALL pawns of the elite class; taught to feel a certain way for reasons of agenda.   They SAY "oh, accept your islamic bro's and sis's..." but put out there daily how DANGEROUS that part of the world is.   And they tell you how dangerous the Tea Party is - when there have been NO PROBLEMS from people in it.  NONE.   In fact, today, we are MURDERERS for opposing Obamacare.     So, propaganda?  You bet!

I'd like to see us get the hell away from the M.E., personally.  I know our alliance with Israel was the major push to get us on the crap list over there, but now BEING there with troops and drones MUST create so much hatred it's not even imaginable.   (picture Chinese drones suddenly killing people you knew outside a local bar....).  There is not much for us to gain by continuing.   The longer we do these things, the less and less 'moral imperative' we have, IMHO.    The situation is being manipulated by our politicians and used against US, for sure.     In just another little while, we'll lose all our freedoms HERE because of this eternal involvement in war.

Perhaps that is part of the agenda? 

[Onepoint]

My point is, Muslims ARE speaking out against it but people have to be willing to listen and pay attention to their voices. 

They are, our media is not reporting it, and frankly its just words when Rafsanjani and Ahmadinejad had condemned terrorism at times too.  Among that same sector of people who are condemning it are also the ones when polled support it, and even is if not a majority when its reaching 30% or more that should be alarming to everyone, including Muslims.

As I said none of that will matter.  Look at what happened to the militia movement once it was linked to the McVeigh, even by association? they were persecuted, generally seen as violent, and still are.  Imagine if wide spread attack such as posed happens,  people are not going ot go out of their way to watch Youtube, they are going to want the threat removed, and since we can not tell a normal mosque from one teaching militancy, guess what happens.   

Imagine instead the Muslim community routed out the terrorist elements themselves and how far that would go in public opinion.  Where is that happening here though?

[Gibson_GM]

As I said none of that will matter.  Look at what happened to the militia movement once it was linked to the McVeigh, even by association? they were persecuted, generally seen as violent, and still are.  Imagine if wide spread attack such as posed happens,  people are not going ot go out of their way to watch Youtube, they are going to want the threat removed, and since we can not tell a normal mosque from one teaching militancy, guess what happens.   

EXACTLY.   These MSM Libs are in love with Islam because they've found a new, exotic group to portray as "oppressed".  And (true or not), they can pull  in their anti-Americanism, blame America first attitude to spin the stories right back to...yes....HATE AMERICA, it's OUR FAULT (as is every negative thing on earth).    A great example is the love for the Palestinians now - even to cheering their rocket attacks on Israeli citizens.  Oh, and for the AQ rebel forces in Syria - our direct enemies...

So, by using false assumptions about American Muslims, and by also doing the same to the Tea Party (don't doubt for one second that we're thought to be worse than A.Q....we ARE thought of that way, and have never done ONE THING WRONG), they are manipulating everyone into accepting their Lib agenda.    Pretty smart triangulating.

As Onepoint says"  "They are going to want the threat removed".   Real or imagined, this country will DEFINITELY run to "security" instead of "liberty".  Already have gone over halfway there, I would say.   

I have to agree that - since there is no way to tell who is a 'patriot Muslim', and since they're not 'out in the streets' waving flags and decrying Sharia (which is really what gets people all freaked out), they tend to be painted with the same brush.

Sounds like you folk, like us Teabaggers, have a PR issue on your hands...Youtube didn't fix it for US, either....     

[salif08]

Now, I don't like Jon Stewart any more than the rest of you probably do.  And, my beliefs on self defense are definitely different from this young lady's.  However, this is definitely another case recently (yesterday) of a Muslim speaking out against violence.  It's too hasty to paint them all with the same brush. 

http://www.businessinsider.com/malala-yousafzai-left-jon-stewart-speechless-2013-10

[Onepoint]

This is not about what Muslims are seen as now, its about what they will be seen as during or post attack that were sheltered and aided by mosques here.   Do you think anyone will step back and remember the girl who stood up against the Taliban in Afghanistan?  If they do, it will be wondering where were the Malala's here before it came to that.  Because after that point sorting the ones who intend harm and those not is going to cause the loss of liberty at the least of a group of people.  Its happened before, it will again unless something changes the dynamic,  and it appears its not going to be.

[bill may]

salif08= i would be proud to stand beside you with my SKS against any race or religion. anyone that loves bacon is a good guy to me. and yes having shipped to you i know your name.

[salif08]

salif08= i would be proud to stand beside you with my SKS against any race or religion. anyone that loves bacon is a good guy to me. and yes having shipped to you i know your name.

I deeply appreciate that, Bill, and feel the same way.  As the American People, each other is really all we have left...

[navysooner]

I cant believe there are people out there that believe this

[Onepoint]

Believe what?  That there are muslim only towns here in this country?