settle a bet

[ammo]

My buddy and I are at the range today shooting our sks's. The topic comes up about an Armageddon / shtf scenario. He goes on to say that he would not want an sks with steel core surplus ammo in a that scenario because if you shoot a guy in the chest ,its only going to put a 30 cal hole through him and even if you hit a lung, he is going to be shooting back at you for 10 minutes. I say he drops like a rock and is in no way, shape or form going to be able to shoot back at all. He might live for ten minutes but there is no return fire. What do you think?

[Toad]

like an SKS or AK never killed anyone?

[panoz77]

Your buddy doesn't really understand what bullets do when the hit soft tissue.

[bobbers]

These speculative conversations can be fun.

First, ask your buddy why this was the war rifle of choice for so many countries...it's not because it tickles.

I'm assuming you are talking about a normal situation, say up to 150 yards and Superman isn't on the other end.  In that case you win in my opinion.  If it's 500 yards distance and Thor is on the other end, your buddy wins.

This IS a 122-125 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity of about 2,450 fps we're talking about, not a 40 grain .22lr at 1100 fps.  It's got, as I recall, about a 15% ballistic advantage over a 55gr. .223 that's currently in use by our armed forces.  Does he think they are trying to reach out and goose someone who will then spend ten minutes returning fire?

I'm sure your pal is a great guy.  Not the sharpest crayon in the box, on the other hand.  Be gentle when you tell him he lost....

[ammo]

I think he is right in the sense that a steel core jacketed round  is going to punch a perfect 30 cal hole through the body (or will the bullet tumble?)Either way, I just cant see anyone being able to take a 30 cal hit in the chest  and be able to return fire. He is actually a brilliant guy , I just think he underestimates the power of a 30 cal round traveling at 2400 fps.

[ammo]

Basically he says because the steel core jacketed  round does not expand the guy that takes the hit is going to need ten or so minutes to bleed out and die. In the mean time he is going to be firing back. My argument was that if a soldier is hit on the battle field and still returned fire for ten minutes, I dont think the military would continue to use the round

[jaysny87]

google 7.62x39 terminal ballistics and look at the diagrams

[Rocketvapor]

Really good use of the wall

[Toad]

better?

[Rocketvapor]

Something tells me a sucking chest wound would mess up my aim

[panoz77]

Google wound channel.

This might help show you in picture form, scroll down a bit in the link
http://www.vaguntrader.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/printthread/Board/142/main/76645/type/thread

https://www.google.com/search?q=7.62x39+wounds&biw=1600&bih=766&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=KuuxVOvBOMqvggS-mIGICg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg

http://imgur.com/a/stRi2

[AKBLUE]

Don't try that at home.  It'll leave a mark.

[deano186]

On the other hand, in your SHTF scenario, suppose it's week 19 and all the soft targets are dead. Now the guys coming after your food have all got improvised body armor and only the steel core ammo will take them down.

[AKBLUE]

On the other hand, in your SHTF scenario, suppose it's week 19 and all the soft targets are dead. Now the guys coming after your food have all got improvised body armor and only the steel core ammo will take them down.

That is a whole other urban legend of steel core piercing armor etc., Double dipping in this thread.   

Which is best for zombies?

[skeptiksds]

From what I have read and have researched your buddy may be on to something if the bet includes only one bullet. There was an article by a trauma medic that revealed the effectiveness of ball ammunition in combat. He was saying that most of his patients came in with more than one gunshot wound (usually from ball ammo) and a good number of them survived, this included some headshots as well. His advice was to put as many rounds into them as possible, with the biggest gun possible to put them down for good. In a shtf situation you have no idea what the guy on the receiving end of your bullet will be on. He may have just done a massive speedball with his bandit buddies and thusly won't feel a thing. There is also the matter of adrenaline to consider, there have been numerous reports of people getting shot and not even noticing until much later that they had been hit.

Here's the link to that article for ya: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/10/daniel-zimmerman/medics-advice-shoot-heaviest-rifle-round-shoot-can-hit-shoot/

As for zombies AK I say .22 to the dome all the way