Author Topic: 20 round Chinese Star mags legal in CA?  (Read 5485 times)

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SKS313

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20 round Chinese Star mags legal in CA?
« on: March 30, 2009, 08:42:43 AM »
Under what circumstances would they be legal or illegal?  Also, would uninstalling them from the rifle be considered disassembling them since they are fixed mags?

LESchwartz

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Re: 20 round Chinese Star mags legal in CA?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2009, 11:59:55 AM »
Treat 20-round fixed mags the same as detachable mags for 922(r) purposes.  Check the "important posts recovered" thread (at the top of the legal forum) to see a letter from ATF on the subject.

Larry
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SKS313

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Re: 20 round Chinese Star mags legal in CA?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2009, 11:36:12 PM »
Thanks Larry for pointing me to that post.

So the short answer is "no" they would NOT be legal in CA and "no" they would NOT be legal in CA even if uninstalled and disassembled from the rifle...I think. (more confused now  :shock:)


California Shooter

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Re: 20 round Chinese Star mags legal in CA?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2009, 10:40:03 PM »
Thanks Larry for pointing me to that post.

So the short answer is "no" they would NOT be legal in CA and "no" they would NOT be legal in CA even if uninstalled and disassembled from the rifle...I think. (more confused now  :shock:)



You are only partially correct, SKS313.

According to my interpretation of the California AW law (I am not a lawyer, but I'd like to play one on TV):

It is not legal in California to to have any magazine of over 10-round capacity installed on the SKS.

Also, it is not legal in California to have a detachable magazine (of any capacity) installed on the SKS.

But, it is legal in California to possess a high-capacity magazine (defined as 10+ round capacity).

Go to this link and download the California Attorney General's Bureau of Firearms "Assault Weapon Identification Guide":

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/awguide/awguide.php

Save it to a folder that you can find quickly. It is a .pdf file that can be read with the free Adobe Acrobat Reader.

Pay special attention to the 'features list' section of "Catagory 3: Generic Characteristics" on page 70 of the guide (actually on page 81 of the .pdf file), and page 74 (page 84 of the guide) that relates to 'Large Capacity Magazines' which states:

"Possession of large capacity magazines, whether by peace officers or private citizens, is not controlled."

Unfortunately, this guide is no longer available as a printed copy to carry with you to the shooting range.

I have encountered a range master who stated that the folding-stock on my Ruger 10/22 is illegal (California's AW laws apply only to center-fire rifles), and a gun shop owner (former peace officer) who stated that a Tapco T6 adjustable stock would be illegal (in CA) on my 10-round, fixed-magazine SKS.

That's why my SKS goes to the range in its original wooden stock, even though it would be legal in its Tapco stock with a '20-round-detachable-looking' fixed 10-round Tapco magazine and in full 922r compliace.

I see no reason to draw undue attention to a fully legal firearm.  :x

I have enough headaches.




ScvJerk

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Re: 20 round Chinese Star mags legal in CA?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2010, 11:15:13 PM »
 This is taken from the California Attorney General Assault Weapons Guide
Note that this is from 2001.

About the 20 round mag, basically:
Large Capacity Magazine Restrictions and Exemptions (Penal Code Section 12020)
A large capacity magazine is defined as “any ammunition feeding device with a capacity to accept more than 10
rounds but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that is permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate
more than 10 rounds nor shall it include any .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device (or, effective
January 1, 2002, a tubular magazine contained in a lever-action firearm).” It is important to understand that
a large capacity feeding device may be detachable or fixed, and includes any tube ammunition feeding device
(other than .22 caliber or, effective January 1, 2002, a tubular magazine contained in a lever-action firearm) that
can accommodate more than 10 rounds. A large capacity magazine also includes linked ammunition with more
than 10 rounds linked together or an ammunition belt with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

Possession of large capacity magazines, whether by peace officers or private citizens, is not controlled.

^^^Now I don't get this part, does that mean that it's legal to have one or not?!^^^

The manufacturing, importation into the state, offering for sale, keeping for sale, exposing for sale,
giving, and lending of a large capacity magazine is controlled.

^^^Why does this **** have to be so confusing?^^^

 No person may participate in these activities without a permit issued by the Department of Justice. For exceptions, see Penal Code §§12020(b)(19)-(32).

Specified law enforcement agencies and their employees are exempt from these restrictions. These agencies
and employees include any federal, state, county, city and county, or city, law enforcement agencies and employees
of those agencies while discharging their official duties, whether on-duty or off-duty, where the use is
authorized by the agency within the scope of their duties. This exemption includes the sale of, giving of,
lending of, importation into the state, or purchase of any large capacity magazine.




destrux

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Re: 20 round Chinese Star mags legal in CA?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2010, 10:51:11 PM »
From what you posted above, it looks like they are trying to say that you can't transfer a high cap mag to anyone (not even lend it to a friend during a shooting session) because it's "controlled"... but if you already own one and always have then it's "not controlled". Whether that means you can use it or not... I won't speculate.

Just for a laugh I'll mention that, according to the evil empire of Paypal, 20rd fixed "star" mags are illegal in CA... because that was the basis paypal used to permanently ban me from using their services for LIFE. I live in PA and was sending the mag to someone else in PA... but apparently Paypal had to consider that I might hurt the feelings of someone in CA... so they locked my account and held several hundred dollars of unrelated funds for a month as further punishment. Maybe I should have read their user agreement more carefully... but what they're doing should be illegal anyway (as should what california is doing).
"Can you imagine a world without violence? Firearms are not for killing people, they're a deterrent." -Alexei Dragunov

Full Clip

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Re: 20 round Chinese Star mags legal in CA?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 11:26:05 PM »
According to my interpretation of the California AW law (I am not a lawyer, but I'd like to play one on TV):

It is not legal in California to to have any magazine of over 10-round capacity installed on the SKS.

Also, it is not legal in California to have a detachable magazine (of any capacity) installed on the SKS.

But, it is legal in California to possess a high-capacity magazine (defined as 10+ round capacity).


Correct, correct and correct.
The 20-round Star mag is a no-no. You can own it legally, but not attach it to a rifle in CA. By doing so you create an illegal assault weapon.
"There are no dangerous weapons, there are only dangerous men..." — Robert Heinlein

rich

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Re: 20 round Chinese Star mags legal in CA?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 11:41:37 PM »
Guns are legal in Kalifornia? :o
"Our father's God to Thee, Author of liberty, to Thee we sing: Long may our land be bright with freedom's holy light; Protect us by Thy might, Great God, our King!"

ScvJerk

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Re: 20 round Chinese Star mags legal in CA?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 11:53:02 PM »
 It just doesn't make any sense that a 20 round FIXED magazine would be illegal. Specially if it's on a rifle without a pistol grip.

 It's so stupid! Why is California so stupid?!

 Anyone who lives in Arizona, start shooting me some cost of living figures, I need to get out of here...

Full Clip

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Re: 20 round Chinese Star mags legal in CA?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2010, 07:43:03 PM »
Don't try to apply logic to CA law.
And it is being worked on. It takes time to undo years of bad law.
"There are no dangerous weapons, there are only dangerous men..." — Robert Heinlein