Author Topic: "Sporting" Purposes  (Read 3034 times)

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Aneye4aneyE

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"Sporting" Purposes
« on: March 12, 2011, 09:38:28 PM »
Quote
It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to

Ok, I have a Yugo, I want to use it for hunting (sporting purpose in my eyes). Any problem anyone sees with throwing a tapco 5 rd'er in there and trying to harvest a deer, that's considered sporting right? My state says "It is unlawful to hunt with a semi-automatic shotgun or semi-automatic rifle that can hold more than six shells in the barrel and magazine combined ."  With a 5rd stop in the original magazine a Conservation Officer could see that as adaptable to hold 10 if it was removed IMHO.  Also I wouldn't even dare try to hunt with the gas valve in the bolt action position with more than 5 rds in there for the same reson above.

So is hunting considered "sporting" or am I reading this wrong?
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BillyBang

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"Sporting" Purposes
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2011, 10:23:39 PM »
Quote
It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to

Ok, I have a Yugo, I want to use it for hunting (sporting purpose in my eyes). Any problem anyone sees with throwing a tapco 5 rd'er in there and trying to harvest a deer, that's considered sporting right? My state says "It is unlawful to hunt with a semi-automatic shotgun or semi-automatic rifle that can hold more than six shells in the barrel and magazine combined ."  With a 5rd stop in the original magazine a Conservation Officer could see that as adaptable to hold 10 if it was removed IMHO.  Also I wouldn't even dare try to hunt with the gas valve in the bolt action position with more than 5 rds in there for the same reson above.

So is hunting considered "sporting" or am I reading this wrong?

Big game, I assume?

The quote of Federal law you posted really has nothing to do with your state hunting laws.
What that quote is telling you is pertinent to 922(r),
the law about assembling firearms from imported parts
that are in essence the same as rifles that cannot be imported.

You see, the term "for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes" is a term used by the batfe to decide
whether or not they will allow certain rifles into the country.

Now your Yugo was imported to the USA under the umbrella of C&R aka Curio & Relic.
Otherwise, it would have been illegal to import because rifles that have bayonets, night sights,
grenade launchers etc. are not "for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes" in the eyes of the atf.

The act of taking your C&R rifle out of it's original military configuration is what creates a 922(r) violation.

I'm don't think putting a five round fixed magazine would take your rifle out of it's C&R configuration
as you are not really changing the configuration and are keeping the fixed mag.
But I really can't say for sure and IANAL: so to be 100% positive you may want to write the atf
with that question as they would have the final word on such matters.

So then your last issue would be is your SKS legal to use for hunting in your state?
Well, most states allow .30 caliber rifles like the SKS for deer and other big game.
But your best bet is to ask a game warden or anyone familiar with your states hunting laws
for the answer.

Hope that helps with your question. 8)



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Pflug

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"Sporting" Purposes
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2011, 10:44:01 PM »
From the hunting regs that were quoted there should be no trouble with either an aftermarket or "permanently" blocked 5 round mag

A spare factory mag can also be cut down to only hold 5 rounds - a similar product was offered by the Chinese for the aftermarket.  The imported Tapco 5 rounders don't have a very good reputation for reliability

The SKS with decent softpoint ammo should have no problem harvesting deer anywhere a slug would- a little weaker than most popular deer calibers but more than enough for reasonable ranges
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 10:56:14 PM by Pflug »
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LESchwartz

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"Sporting" Purposes
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2011, 10:52:48 PM »
The Federal law you quoted has virtually nothing to do with the State law you quoted, though one might think so since both talk about "sporting".  Get ahold of an extra OE magazine and screw a chunk of wood into the mag body to block it to 5 rounds.  That way your safe from your State DNR and don't destroy serialized mag that came with the rifle.

Just make sure you get a Yugo mag () to play with or you could run afoul of 922(r) -- a Chinese OE mag or a Tapco fixed mag won't cut it, unless I you remove the GL and bayonet.

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Hillbilly61

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"Sporting" Purposes
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2011, 07:47:26 AM »
Get ahold of an extra OE magazine and screw a chunk of wood into the mag body to block it to 5 rounds.  That way your safe from your State DNR and don't destroy serialized mag that came with the rifle.

You can do the same by gluing the block of wood in to an original mag. Solvents will remove it and the block will meet most game department requirements. Other options are available too. A new mag is not necessary with some creativity employed.

Aneye4aneyE

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Re: "Sporting" Purposes
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2011, 10:10:08 PM »
Alright thanks guys.

Quote
Big game, I assume?

Yup I'd be trying for deer or big game as the state see's it.

Quote
So then your last issue would be is your SKS legal to use for hunting in your state?
Well, most states allow .30 caliber rifles like the SKS for deer and other big game.
But your best bet is to ask a game warden or anyone familiar with your states hunting laws
for the answer.

And yes a .30 is legal, anything over .22, actually. Just have to be north of the rifle-shotgun line (which is bad news for me since I'm at the very bottom of the shotgun zone).

And sorry I put the stuff about the state law in there, didn't mean to be confusing.  I just didn't know what sporting meant and wondered if I'd be violating 922r.

One last question; If the bayo was removed along with the grenade launcher and a foreign flash hider put on with the tapco 5 round, would this be legal or no? Sorry for the "if this and if that" questions, I'm glad I'm a noob and not a lawyer...I'd go crazy!!!

p.s. Also, thanks to the mod who made the original post a thread in itself  :o
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Pflug

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Re: "Sporting" Purposes
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2011, 10:26:12 PM »
Not sure why a "foreign" flash hider  :?

Easiest would be simply using a 5 round magazine (and possible removing the bayonet blade to avoid potential issues from the game warden)- You should still be able to retain C&R status and not have to worry about 922 r )

In the past the 5 round Tapco magazines were imported- so they wouldn't count as a compliance part anyways

Removing ALL the restricted features (grenade launcher, bayonet, night sights) might void the C&R status but result in a rifle "suitable for sporting purposes" and also OK under 922 r
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Aneye4aneyE

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Re: "Sporting" Purposes
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2011, 10:45:20 PM »
Not sure why a "foreign" flash hider  :?

Easiest would be simply using a 5 round magazine (and possible removing the bayonet blade to avoid potential issues from the game warden)- You should still be able to retain C&R status and not have to worry about 922 r )

In the past the 5 round Tapco magazines were imported- so they wouldn't count as a compliance part anyways

Removing ALL the restricted features (grenade launcher, bayonet, night sights) might void the C&R status but result in a rifle "suitable for sporting purposes" and also OK under 922 r

Foreign bc I have a few flash hiders from an L1A1 whose threads match that of my Yugo.  8)

I'll probablly just try and go with the altered 5 round magazine.

And I think I will try to write an e-mail or send a letter to the ATF and see what they say.

All this kinda makes you (me) question why these laws are in place. [SPECULATION]Probablly 99% of people who would alter 922r things on their rifle wouldn't use it for illegal/destructive purposes. I've seen gangland episodes w/modded SKS's and I highly doubt one gangster said to the other, "Hey, is that SKS we're about to use for a crime 922r compliant?" ...just sayin I don't understand where the illegality lies in putting in say an aftermarket mag or a nice new stock, etc, etc since criminals have no regard for the law anyways.[/SPECULATION]
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Pflug

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Re: "Sporting" Purposes
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2011, 12:10:28 PM »
Actually the law seems to be intended to ban "military" type rifles from being imported at all- at the time there were no such things as "compliance parts"

Not necessarily aimed toward individuals but rather to keep "semi automatic assault" type weapons from being brought in- nothing with a pistol grip, high cap magazine, or the like would be legal to import

The fact it also restricted individuals didn't bother the government  8)

The need, however, to have a legal definition of "imported" led to the "10 or less"- importers found a loophole- by replacing parts the status was changed and a less restrictions on the now "domestic" product

A good example would be the WASR from Century Arms- the double stack high cap "regular AK style" rifle is illegal to import and "non-sporting" but was much cheaper to have built in Romania.  The rifles were built there with a lower magazine capacity and lacking the "military" features.  Once in the U.S., the rifles had the legal number of original parts replaced with U.S. made equivalents and then "converted" to the "military" style

You could think of 922 (r) as a failed ban and compliance parts as a loophole rather than just some complicated legislation designed to mess with gun owners
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Hillbilly61

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Re: "Sporting" Purposes
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2011, 01:38:38 PM »
My read on 922r is that it is intended to cater to the domestic arms industry in this age of international commerce. It would be rather onerous to insure that EVERY major component of a domestically manufactured gun to have a domestic origin. Therefore, the feds set up the parts game to allow domestic arms manufacturers leeway with including some foreign components in a gun of domestic origin, but they did not get so specific as to dictate which part had to be of domestic origin.

Unless specifically exempted, whole AKs and other guns of a military nature are import prohibited, but their parts are not prohibited. So, the parts are imported and the manufacturer reassembles them in compliance with 922r. Century and others are using 922r to build what are technically replicas of the original 100% foreign build. If you take a foreign gun of military origin that is already here and make a significant mod, 922r kicks in as the Feds view you are effectively manufacturing a new type of gun (even if the total production number never exceeds one). It just happens to closely follow an existing platform. If you were so skillful as to build a your own military style gun from scratch using just domestic parts, 922r would still be in effect. Except it would be a non-issue in such an instance, as all of the parts would be of domestic origin.

MakarovingCharges

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Re: "Sporting" Purposes
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2011, 01:48:37 AM »
They always use catch phrases like "sporting purposes" and then let the person with the best legal teams duke it out. Especially when it comes to guns and shooting.

My personal favorite has always been "tourist season". I hope they up the bag limit this year.


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Re: "Sporting" Purposes
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2011, 08:57:32 AM »
If a dowel inserted an a shotgun mag tube to lower capacity is acceptable to a game warden (as it has been for pretty much always), I don't see how or why a wooden block to reduce capacity in your rifle's mag should be viewed any differently.
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Aneye4aneyE

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Re: "Sporting" Purposes
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2011, 11:38:44 PM »
Kidding, just some comic relief here.
lol nothing wrong with that my friend.

If a dowel inserted an a shotgun mag tube to lower capacity is acceptable to a game warden (as it has been for pretty much always), I don't see how or why a wooden block to reduce capacity in your rifle's mag should be viewed any differently.

Thats a good way to look at it zoom-zoom. Should I ever encounter a game warden, I will most defiently submit that question and let you know the outcome.
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SinisterBud

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Re: "Sporting" Purposes
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2011, 10:57:16 AM »
However, ATF has told one member of the Survivor's SKS Boards web site “the bayonet and grenade launcher may be removed for shooting purposes without affecting the C&R classification of the firearm.” But this begs questions such as: “How long a time period can the grenade launcher be removed for ‘shooting purposes’?” And, “does the threaded muzzle need to be covered and when?”
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Hillbilly61

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Re: "Sporting" Purposes
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2011, 06:55:53 AM »
However, ATF has told one member of the Survivor's SKS Boards web site “the bayonet and grenade launcher may be removed for shooting purposes without affecting the C&R classification of the firearm.” But this begs questions such as: “How long a time period can the grenade launcher be removed for ‘shooting purposes’?” And, “does the threaded muzzle need to be covered and when?”

The time period is irrelevant. It could be forever (as in California). As far as I know, they are completely silent on OK/Not OK re. threads on the muzzle. States are not though. Many prohibit threaded muzzles from the get go. Taping the threads over does not dices either. Either screw something different on (muzzle brake), burr the threads (unscrewable) or just lop that part of the barrel off.