Need help. Inconsistent groups.

[JimG]

Sile import Norinco type 56 Chinese Akm. Trying to zero this Akm at 100 meters per the Soviet method has been an exercise in sheer frustration. While group size is acceptable, it will not hold a consistent POI from group to group. Does this with Brown Bear and Lapua. Although to a lesser degree with Lapua. The center of the 4 shot groups can be as far as 4-8 inches from each other in any direction. Shooting from prone or a bench does not matter.  This is slow fire and good shooting form is observed.  Can't zero the front sight when no two groups hit the same POI. I'm waiting a few minutes between groups and only shoot on cool windless days. Chromed bore is spotless and crown looks fine.

[prodgi]

Couple things.  Could be your not in a natural shooting position and your trying to muscle the gun into position.  Also how you get behind the gun can change the way it reacts to recoil. Some poi shift from prone to bench is somewhat normal as your body's reaction to recoil can change. 
Sight picture is also a possibility.   Getting the exact sight picture and becoming good with irons at 100yds isn't as easy as some would have you believe.  Especially when it's a rifle like an AK that probably doesn't fit you all that well. 
What are you using for a rest?

[AKBLUE]

What muzzle device?  What furniture? How are you supporting the rifle and whereon the firearm?

[mogunner]

I picked up a bunch of ammo from different manufacturers to try out in my WASR and was amazed at the difference between them. Mine prefers the cheap Monarch FMJ from Academy, some have said it's just rebranded Brown Bear. Next was Golden Tiger, then Tulammo being about the same as Silver Bear and Wolf. It does not perform well with S&B for some reason. In SP it liked MFS, of course that seems to have disappeared lately but the Golden Bear is a close second so I picked up a bunch of it. The S&B soft point was dismal but probably because the lead is soft and was easily deformed during chambering. I shoot off a cheapy Caldwell rest.

AK at 100 meters, most are happy being able to keep it on paper at that distance.

[JimG]

I'll try to answer all questions-


I'm aware of 'natural point of aim'. No conscious effort is made to 'muscle' the weapon. I'm aware that some change in POI will occur with different shooting positions. That is not the issue. The issue is no two groups will shoot to the same POI from any position. For example, I am at the bench, I carefully shoot 4 shots slow fire at target. Make safe. Walk to target. Mark impacts/holes. Walk back. Sit down and wait a couple more minutes. Load and shoot 4 more slow fire shots. Make safe. Walk to target. Second group will be a few inches in any direction away from first group. No changes where made to weapon, shooting position, or load shot. I have a large variety of leather sand bags. Both rabbit ear and flat types. I also use a 50 cal steel ammo can filled with sand and then put a bag on top. Whatever combination of bags is needed is what I use. Irons are no stranger to me. I have many hunting rifles, milsurps and 'black rifles' with the as issued irons. For example, on Christmas day I shot my 38spl snubnose. 6" 5 shot offhand groups at 30 yards with +p defense loads. Consistent 1.0625" 5 shot prone groups at 100 meters with my 5.56 h-bar using Fed Match 69gr SMK. Also got repeated first shot hits on steel with the h-bar at 300 meters prone. With the AKM 4 shot groups ranged from 4 to 6" at 100 meters prone. The last two groups I shot with Brown Bear 123gr fmj where as follows. 5.0625" 4 shots. Excluding flyer (permissible per Soviet standards) group measures 2.8125". I'm 100% fine with this level of accuracy. No changes made to weapon, ammo, target, shooting position, next 4 shot group measures 8.5", excluding flyer 6.25". This was the worst group shot all day. The problem is the center of the group is 7" right and 5" lower than the center of the first group.  This is what I need to fix. Muzzle device is type 84 flash hider. Furniture is factory wood. Other than the flash hider, weapon is factory stock. Yes, the type 84 is 30 cal and I'm not getting bullet strikes.

[JimG]

I would like to add that I'm not trying to sound like a know it all or a jerk in my last post. I'm just frustrated. This is also not a new issue with it. But lately I've been committed to sorting this out.

[Bottoz]

New Rifle or used? Round Count?

[prodgi]

How far apart are the groups? Your sights solid and not moving?
I've chased the same thing on rifles.  It was me not the gun.   More recently I had issues with inconsistent hits with my .308, basicly the ballistics software "was wrong" and was giving me bad data or so i thought.  Boiled down to me not "driving" the gun.  As the gun recoiled it would sink into the bags and I would get groups that would go high and I would miss the entire target beyond 500yds.
Another tip with shooting irons for accuracy, sounds counter productive I know, is to focus on the front sight and not the target.   

[JimG]

It's a pre 1989 ban Sile import so it's been shot. I know who purchased it originally and I don't believe he shot more than a couple hundred shots. I've owned it for many years and have put maybe 250-300 bullets down the bore.

[JimG]

Sights are not loose. Already posted POI change measurements, but here they are again. The last two 4 shot groups shot had of POI change of 7" right and 5" low. This was at 100 meters. Please re-read my long post on this.

[Bottoz]

Tight muzzle device? Good Crown? *edit* Re-read, crown is good.

If you're doing everything right, maybe you just got a bad one. It happens. 

[Rocketvapor]

change to 10 shot groups.

[AKBLUE]

Not saying it is the definite answer but maybe  try shooting without the type 84 muzzle device. Just to eliminate a "factor".
Other than a loose component or barrel., dunno.
Generally the type 56 Chinese are relatively accurate with any ammo.
Just for giggles try some Chinese 7.62 ammo.

[Lafayettegregory]

sounds like a crown issue to me.
But could be a gas leak?

[JimG]

Gas leak? Could you elaborate please.