Author Topic: Charlie Kirk Has Been Shot  (Read 1284 times)

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LESchwartz

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Re: Charlie Kirk Has Been Shot
« Reply #60 on: October 04, 2025, 09:51:33 AM »
The girl that did it was dressed in all black. Black boots, black cargo pants, black shirt. Head shaved on one side, long hair on the other. She was screaming about Trump the whole they were holding her. She was a little surprised when she found out the hat didn't say MAGA. She was lot more surprised to find out she was being arrested for Assault & Battery.

While she might have been arrested, I doubt she will spend any time incarcerated.  She should actually be charged with some form of "terrorism", "terroristic threats", etc.

Larry
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thresher_593

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Re: Charlie Kirk Has Been Shot
« Reply #61 on: October 04, 2025, 10:32:28 AM »
The girl that did it was dressed in all black. Black boots, black cargo pants, black shirt. Head shaved on one side, long hair on the other. She was screaming about Trump the whole they were holding her. She was a little surprised when she found out the hat didn't say MAGA. She was lot more surprised to find out she was being arrested for Assault & Battery.

While she might have been arrested, I doubt she will spend any time incarcerated.  She should actually be charged with some form of "terrorism", "terroristic threats", etc.

Larry

Sounds like the judge and prosecutor are taking a hard line on this.

Apparently, she's had run-ins with the law in multiple states and possibly has warrants in other states as well.

Last I heard, the judge set ahigh bond and her attorney screeched like a turpentined cat over the amount.

The law is a little more strict in our little burg than it would be in say, Cincinnati or Chicago.
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Onepoint

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Re: Charlie Kirk Has Been Shot
« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2025, 11:21:16 AM »
This is sort of related to all of this.   I read a commentary from a judge, and I forget who it was now, over a 27 year old homeless guy who died, and no one claimed the body etc.  The guy had appeared before him several times for minor crimes,  had mental illness and drug addiction issues, was sent to rehab but never followed through, and finally dies alone in woods near a town from an over dose and exposure IIRC.  He lamented how he tried to help but was limited by law and extent of his authority.  It was a sad story no doubt, and I sympathize with the frustration of not being able to make someone do what's best for them.  He was complaining how we have shut down asylums and throw those people into prisons now. 

However I had some issues with this idea if only we had not shut down asylums our society would be better off.

For one, asylums were not really that helpful in curing mental illness. They were just a padded prison, sometimes more horrific to the inmates than regular prison, or in some cases an ineffectual revolving door temp holding warehouses much like rehabs have become.

Sounds to me this guy would have been institutionalized for life, he admitted the guy could not function in our society. So basically he wanted to put him away somewhere that was not a criminal factory where violent criminals are trained to be better at being violent criminals.  And that speaks a whole lot more to our failing prison system than a need for alternatives. I don't really see the benefit of more prisons with different labels if it ends up being the same in the end.
 
I would lean more to favoring capital punishment for more crimes, but that also is abused.  Still, there are some cases that are not questionable, many that are witnessed by everyone through video these days. Like the case of Iryna Zarutska.  I don't care what his issue or mental state was, once crossing that line, he ceded his right to life when he took an innocent woman's life.  It is the unequivocal way to end recidivism.

 If I would create a system for reformed expedited executions, it would be: A fair trial. Upon conviction, one appeal if warranted, like the far too common prosecutorial suppression of evidence, an independent state level judicial review by a panel of lawyers, judges and at least one regular person with a normal brain using common sense and include the entire history of the individual to make unanimous recommendation for proceeding or not.  If so, death sentence carried out within a year.

And prisons would become a dreaded place to be. Gangs would be forbidden, any hint of one gets a shake down and solitary.  Get a prison tat, it gets cut off.   

Experience is the hardest kind of teacher, it gives the test 1st and the lesson after.

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Stupidity is the same.
This is why life is so hard.

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Re: Charlie Kirk Has Been Shot
« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2025, 11:56:03 PM »
Speaking of prisons and capital punishment on a side not: There was a film based on actual people: "Citizen Zero", about a Russian killer from the '50 through the '70s (serial killers are mostly a western culture thing). Anyway, it took 17 years to capture a killer of children. When he was found guilty and sentenced to death, they took him to the basement and put a Markov to his head. PAX
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thresher_593

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Re: Charlie Kirk Has Been Shot
« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2025, 06:37:00 AM »
Speaking of prisons and capital punishment on a side not: There was a film based on actual people: "Citizen Zero", about a Russian killer from the '50 through the '70s (serial killers are mostly a western culture thing). Anyway, it took 17 years to capture a killer of children. When he was found guilty and sentenced to death, they took him to the basement and put a Markov to his head. PAX

Due Process in the Soviet Union had a different meaning than here in the US.
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thresher_593

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Re: Charlie Kirk Has Been Shot
« Reply #65 on: October 06, 2025, 07:21:33 AM »
"He was complaining how we have shut down asylums and throw those people into prisons now."

In some places they do, most don't. Around here, if a person comes up on charges and has provable mental issues they mainly get sent for treatment. But that doesn't include confinement. My niece works at a treatment center and they have some creepy, scary, demented looking patients. She watches them go thru their treatment and then go to the parking lot where they sell their prescription or trade what they got for something else, money or other drugs. Would it make any difference to arrest them, again? They'd just be put right back into the same revolving door system.

We have had two crimes in our are that really shook people up. One of them was the murder of a young girl by a neighbor. He was about 18 or 19. The families got along well and there had never been a hint of trouble with the boy. He was asked to watch the girl one night, she was already in bed asleep, the parents had to go out for an hour or two. He murdered her, cut her open, did unspeakable things. Then he hid the body. Of course he was caught and, when his time in court came, his attorney tried to get him off on mental grounds. The judge was not having it. He said if the guy went to a mental facility they couldn't keep him for more than 5-7 years. He ended up going to a state prison and, whenever he comes up for parole, there are petitions to keep him in, and petitions to let him out. Last time he was up for parole they discovered he'd been corresponding with a 12 year old girl. He has stated that, if he's released, he might do it again. But, some people say that's not a reason to keep him confined.

We had another crime that involved two homeless drug addicts. One of them killed the other to get about $25. Then he got a can of gasoline and set the body on fire in an attempt to cover up the crime. Again, there were argument for sending him into a treatment program, which he was already in, verses prison. Again, he got prison.

Onepoint you are totally correct about the asylums being horrific places. Some of them, poorly run, were total Hell Holes. But many of them were run with a degree of professionalism. And the patients were fed, clothed, bathed, medicated, and protected from themselves, from the elements and from other patients who would do them harm. The people who were confined there simply couldn't function in society.

My father-in-law worked at a state hospital. I don't know how he did it. Everything from alcoholics to murderers. And a lot of the in-between. He was vehemently opposed to closing the state hospitals and turning the patients out into a world they just couldn't handle. Nor could society handle having them.

And, how did they get treated? A bunch of people thought the negatives were worse than the positives and they came up with the concept of deinstitutionalization. Why, those poor people shouldn't be locked up. They should be living free, with relatives or maybe group homes. They can go to therapy sessions at a local clinic three our four times a week. They'll have better lives if we free them. Some of those people couldn't put their pants on, let alone make it to the clinic. And they never funded group homes or the staff to run them, at least not at the level needed.

So now, those people are living under bridges. And in old buses. And they aren't getting ANY treatment at all.

And they're targets for criminals. If a homeless person disappears, who reports it? They're subject to abuse and being used and manipulated.

But hey, at least they're free.
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Onepoint

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Re: Charlie Kirk Has Been Shot
« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2025, 07:23:33 AM »
Yeah, not sure I want to emulate the soviet unions legal system in any way, but certainly there is something broken in ours along with our culture.


thresher_593
Quote
Last time he was up for parole they discovered he'd been corresponding with a 12 year old girl. He has stated that, if he's released, he might do it again. But, some people say that's not a reason to keep him confined.
Funny in that I agree. It's time to just put him down.  Its one thing to let someone out who didn't commit a violent crime, but when talking about the other kind of criminal, especially something that deranged,  I see no reason to keep people in prison for life at public expense when they will never be able to released for the threat they are to the public, and I don't care if it's a mental illness or not.  If private families or groups want to do that, it should be up to them to fund it.  Surely there is enough wealth in the country these compassionate leftists could pay for monsters to live in cages if it makes them feel morally superior.  It may seem pretty cold, but its no colder than the indifference the people who want them coddled by the state show to ones trying to get on in life after one of these monsters has destroyed your world killing a family member, especially your kid.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2025, 07:39:30 AM by Onepoint »
Experience is the hardest kind of teacher, it gives the test 1st and the lesson after.

Courage is knowing it may hurt and doing it anyway.
Stupidity is the same.
This is why life is so hard.

thresher_593

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Re: Charlie Kirk Has Been Shot
« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2025, 07:41:24 AM »
If a pit bull bites a child, it's put down.

Why, would we not do the same with a criminal that commits a crime that takes a life?
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Danjal

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Re: Charlie Kirk Has Been Shot
« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2025, 08:48:47 AM »
I mean seriously, how hard can it be to just shut the hell up and let people mourn their loss, whether you like them or not.

This is why I'm pretty much done with both sides of American politics now. EVERYTHING is a political talking point for both sides anymore. It's nice folks took some interest in the what and actually voting for once, but the problem is nearly nobody looks into what's really going on, even if it's right in front of their face. Vote for the letter, regurgitate the talking points their talking head gave them, and hate the other side unconditionally.
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Danjal

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Re: Charlie Kirk Has Been Shot
« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2025, 11:11:39 AM »
Many modern HR Policies are a reflection of the laws of the state in which the company is incorporated or in which their headquarters are located. 

You forgot the most important rule in HR; Bring no negative attention to the company from the public.
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JimmyJamesKY

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Re: Charlie Kirk Has Been Shot
« Reply #70 on: October 06, 2025, 06:14:21 PM »
Quote
For one, asylums were not really that helpful in curing mental illness. They were just a padded prison, sometimes more horrific to the inmates than regular prison, or in some cases an ineffectual revolving door temp holding warehouses much like rehabs have become.

Great point.  This is a subject I'm quite familiar with, as it's peripheral to what I do for a living.  I train the people to staff "group homes" which are now called "staffed residences" to be more politically correct.  I used to teach a Crisis Management class, and used a book from the late 60s called Christmas in Purgatory.

https://www.mn.gov/mnddc/parallels2/pdf/undated/Xmas-Purgatory.pdf

The point of me using the book was to show how far we have come in our care of the mentally ill.  Some "patients" were naked, chained to a floor with a drain, slid a tray of food once in a while, and sprayed off with a hose when necessary.  Now most of the ones our agency supports have it better than most of the working poor.  They have their own rooms in nice houses, with locks for privacy, spending money, game consoles and the best healthcare money can't buy (medicaid).  Granted, these are generally non violent people from mildly to profoundly mentally handicapped (can't say retarded without risking my job, although the older psych evals still used it), but one staff was stabbed with a fork.  They generally are aggressive towards one another more than staff.

Anyway, the saddest part of the book for me was always the children.  There would be a room with over 50 cribs, with one nurse over them all.  They never felt a human touch unless it was medical attention, and would cry out "please touch me" while reaching through the bars.  You can't improve mental issues with isolation, although many are beyond improvement.  These are the types that in bygone eras would have been left in the woods for nature to take it's course.

We do have an institution nearby for the ones that are too violent for our agency.  We are kind of the middle ground between prison and institutions.

I kind of lost my point here, but my intention was to agree with OnePoint.  Institutions are much better than they used to be, but are no place for violent sex offenders, especially the ones that play the handicapped card when caught.  This just puts them among the easy victims.

Prisons have their place.
Mental Institutions have their place.
But the Firing Squad also has a place, and putting someone on death row for 30 years is just the prison industry raking in profits.  I'm all for the fast track to Hell for the indisputable monsters like the "man" who killed the Ukrainian woman on the subway.

Also, Kentucky has the second oldest Asylum in the U.S. called Eastern State Hospital.  I've only been there a couple of times, but it has some of the worst vibes of any place I have ever been.  I couldn't wait to get off the grounds, and hope to never go back.  That's where they end up when things go really sideways.

If anything positive came out of the Kirk assassination, it's that it made some people take a step back and think about where this road of political violence leads.  And of course it made some others more rabid with blood lust.  We have a long road ahead, and I hate the world  I'm leaving for my kids.  They're about to turn 9 and 12, and will be hitting adulthood right about the time the worlds goes off the rails. 

Please,

Prove me wrong.  :cry:
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PAX

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Re: Charlie Kirk Has Been Shot
« Reply #71 on: October 06, 2025, 07:59:18 PM »
Another side note to what JJ said.
When they were constructing HWY 680 through Freekmont, my buddy's dad was the heavy equipment contractor. He bought a piece of rural dirt with a fairly large farm type home. They built an off ramp to store the gear over about 10 acers. The contractor rented the house out to his son and another bud of mine. One room in the home was a cell, bars and opaque shatterproof glass, cement block for a mattress, shower and open head. Apparently, the original owner had an insane family member they cared for. PAX
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Onepoint

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Re: Charlie Kirk Has Been Shot
« Reply #72 on: October 06, 2025, 10:06:21 PM »
I think the problem is that any system ran institution is not going to address needs or necessary treatment of all the people in it, asylum or prison.  We have super max prisons for the very worst, and for some reason once in a while we send the not so worst to them.   Its just the nature of any mass produced service.  So it falls 2 ways, either some get overlooked and abused by the thing that is supposed to help, or it gets abused by those leveraging it for other purpose, which is how we get people misplaced in detention levels or released altogether trying to social engineer. 

I don't think there is a solution unfortunately that is not at the point of contact for each one individually. The sheer volume alone prohibits a simple answer, heck just the homeless is an insurmountable problem in every community.  And that doesn't account for the mentally unstable who don't live on the streets.  But any civilization cannot survive an increasing mentally ill populace, and certainly a lot of people have left rationality for their faith and politics to where you can't even interact with them anymore.
Experience is the hardest kind of teacher, it gives the test 1st and the lesson after.

Courage is knowing it may hurt and doing it anyway.
Stupidity is the same.
This is why life is so hard.

LESchwartz

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Re: Charlie Kirk Has Been Shot
« Reply #73 on: October 07, 2025, 01:53:21 PM »
There are also a fair number of people who are homeless by choice. These ones have a place they could go if they wanted to. However, they don't want to follow the rules that exist there.

Larry
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