Author Topic: Chinese Type 53 vs. SKS  (Read 1671 times)

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Bkloes

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Chinese Type 53 vs. SKS
« on: March 11, 2012, 06:02:46 PM »
Hey all,
So i am new to surplus rifles but I am learning about various things.  I read all about how fun the Type 44 (Mosin Nagant) can be with the higher powered 7.62x54r round they can hit at 1000 yards?  I realize that this takes years of practice and is not something that anyone can just start off doing.  The shorter SKS round is not capable of this distance, and also has a less "straight" trajectory.  Please correct anything I say that is wrong, since I am just learning.  The first question I guess should be are the Type 53 rifles as accurate as the Type 44? What is the main difference?
Regarding the SKS and the Mosin Nagants, is that the difference in rounds make these two guns like apples and oranges? I have heard there is no point in scoping an SKS due to the rounds limited distance and something about the shaking from multiple shots being hard on the scope?  Since the Type 44/53 are bolt action does this make them more suited for a scope?  Finally what would you pay for a Type 53 carbine today and what are some things to look out for?

Thank you,

Brandon

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Re: Chinese Type 53 vs. SKS
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2012, 12:44:25 PM »
Welcome to the SKS boards Bkloes. The boards search feature will allow you to find most of the answers to your questions. But here is some history of the M44 carbine.

Quote
Russia

Mosin Nagant Model 1938 Carbine: A carbine based on the M1891/30 design that was produced from 1939 to 1945 at the Izhevsk arsenal and in 1940 and 1944 at Tula. They were intended for use by second-echelon and noncombatant troops. Very few M38 carbines were made in 1945 and are highly sought after by collectors. Essentially a M1891/30 with a shortened barrel and shortened stock (the M38 is 40 inches (1,000 mm) in overall length versus 48 inches overall length for the Model 91/30), this carbine did not accept a bayonet; was in fact designed so the standard Model 91/30 bayonet would not fit it. However many M38 carbines were fitted into M44 stocks by the Soviets as a wartime expedient. M38s in the correct M38 stock command a premium over M38s in M44 pattern stocks. The M38 was replaced by the M44 carbine in 1944.[1]

Mosin Nagant M44 Carbine

    Model 1944 Carbine: This carbine was introduced into service in late 1944 (with 50,000 service-test examples produced in 1943) and remained in production until 1955. Its specifications are very similar to the M1938, with the unique addition of a permanently affixed, side-folding cruciform-spike bayonet. A groove for the folded bayonet is inlet into the right side of the stock. These were in use not only by the Soviet Union, but also its various satellite nations.[1] Many of these were counterbored post-war.

Mosin Nagant M59 Carbine

    Model 1891/59 Carbine: M1891/59s were created by shortening M1891/30 rifles to carbine length, with rear sight numbers partially ground off to reflect reduced range. These rifles are almost clones of the M38 except for the ground off M91/30 rear sight.[13] The "1891/59" marking on the receiver suggests the carbines were created in or after 1959. It was initially thought that Bulgaria or another Soviet satellite country performed the conversions in preparation for a Western invasion that never came. Recent evidence suggests that the M91/59 was indeed produced in Bulgaria from Soviet supplied M91/30s.

China

    Type 53: A license-built version of the post-war Soviet M1944 carbine. Many of the carbines imported to the USA are constructed of both local Chinese parts and surplus Soviet parts, there is much debate as to when this mixture occurred. Type 53s are found both with and without the permanently attached folding bayonet, though the former is far more common.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin%E2%80%93Nagant
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rcbif

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Re: Chinese Type 53 vs. SKS
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2012, 05:39:12 PM »
Dont expect any accuracy out of a t-53 or m-44 at 1000 yards.

If you are looking for a high powered long-range rifle, neither of those are what you want.

 It seems you are looking for a rifle to scope? I would suggest a modern savage bolt action or similar. More accuracy, better quality modern ammo, and more aftermarket support.

T-53's run 100-200 right now. Things to look for are matching parts, and most importantly, the bore. Many Chinese t-53's have corroded, dark bores. I general, if you can find a t-53 that has been taken care of, it will have a smoother action and trigger compared to an m-44 (1945+ m-44 rifles are an exception)

If you want a scoped military surplus rifle, that you can shoot cheap ammo out of, I would suggest a scoped repro 91/30 sniper. There are some youtube videos of a guy shooting a man sized target at 800yrds with one.

Old Outlaw

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Re: Chinese Type 53 vs. SKS
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2012, 07:00:30 PM »
Or, if you really want an accurate Military Bolt gun for long range, look at the 6.5 X 55 Swedish M96 Mauser action rifles!
Tough to beat for accuracy at any range.

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Re: Chinese Type 53 vs. SKS
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 07:21:16 PM »
Or, if you really want an accurate Military Bolt gun for long range, look at the 6.5 X 55 Swedish M96 Mauser action rifles!
Tough to beat for accuracy at any range.
Honestly, can you even see 1000 yards Outlaw or even 100? You don't even need those Swedes, you can't use them for their intended purposes, better send them to me and stick with Russian SKSs.  :lol:
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Old Outlaw

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Re: Chinese Type 53 vs. SKS
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 07:44:18 PM »
Or, if you really want an accurate Military Bolt gun for long range, look at the 6.5 X 55 Swedish M96 Mauser action rifles!
Tough to beat for accuracy at any range.
Honestly, can you even see 1000 yards Outlaw or even 100? You don't even need those Swedes, you can't use them for their intended purposes, better send them to me and stick with Russian SKSs.  :lol:
Dream on dog breath! :lol:

Bkloes

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Re: Chinese Type 53 vs. SKS
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 09:27:48 PM »
lol you two are funny....don't feel bad outlaw....I can't see much past 100 yards either :shock: Says shocked but it really is how I look trying to see a target.  I have been having fun with my SKS but I was looking at the 7.62x54 rifles as a possible scoped gun for my old eyes. Never really used one honestly, just figure it helps?  For my SKS how many of you have used those tech sights...are they better than the old iron ones?  I do pretty good at 100 yards, BUT I am squinting for sure!

Old Outlaw

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Re: Chinese Type 53 vs. SKS
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 09:33:01 PM »
I have the Tech200 on a Romanian SKS. It is working very well for me at 100. Better by far than regular irons.

Frisco Pete

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Re: Chinese Type 53 vs. SKS
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2012, 11:28:15 PM »
The 7.62x39mm was developed as a medium-power round.  In other words, it bridges the gap between the 9mm (or 7.62x25) submachine guns of the WWII era and the full-powered battle rifle rounds like the 7.62x54r.  As such it was designed for the combat ranges most often seen in combat - 300 meters maximum.  Beyond that individual soldiers are harder to see and are best engaged with crew-served weapons.  Therefore the 7.62x54r was considered to have excess power for the application at the cost of bigger and heavier rifles, increased recoil, heavier and more expensive ammo etc.  Yet the subguns were pretty much limited to under 100 meters and the light pistol bullets (FMJ) had only limited stopping power.

So while the x39's 122-grain bullet will shoot to 1000 yards, it has some major ballistic disadvantages over the larger-cased, heavy bullet x54r.  The velocity advantage from the big case is significant in flattening trajectory and minimizing wind drift.  In addition the heavier, longer, and more streamlined bullet retains its downrange velocity (and energy) better than the stubby and less streamlined lighter bullet.  So that is why the 7.62x54r round has a major advantage when it comes to making easier hits at long range.

Having said that, you need to realize that basically all the 7.62x54r and 7.62x39 ammo is not match grade in accuracy, and in fact is not noted for its guilt-edged accuracy at all.  Couple this with the so-so bores of most surplus Mosins (shot with corrosive ammo) and coarse iron sights, and you can see why engaging long range targets is a real hit or miss thing.

So while it may be fun to lob bullets from these two rifles out there at (large) long range targets (and I would qualify anything at over 400 yards to be long range), they really don't offer the level of accuracy that most long range shooters demand.

Therefore, I would enjoy any SKS or Mosin Nagant for what it is and have fun lobbing shells way out there, I wouldn't get to tightly wound about serious long range stuff with either of them.
For that purpose the easiest way to go is with a modern scoped sporter bolt action shooting a modern US caliber, whether a "deer rifle" for casual long range shooting, or one of the heavy barrel tactical/sniper rigs that the serious people use.

For more info on long range trajectory stuff go to the SCOPE, OPTICS & BALLISTIC INFO & FAQs sticky post at the top of this forum and then scroll down to the SIGHT IN AND TRAJECTORY RELATIONSHIPS part of the thread.

BTW - as an owner of a 1896 Swedish Mauser 6.5x55mm rifle, all I can say is that while it is very accurate for a surplus military rifle, basically any of my modern scoped deer rifles from Ruger, Winchester, and Remington can exceed its hit capability at long range in any one of the usual common calibers - .243, 25-06, .270 Win, .270 WSM and 30-06.
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