SKS Shooters Burning Down My State - Shooting Ban Authority Given

[Frisco Pete]

Believe it or not this is true. Particularly in one county with a large urban population and no general public gun ranges. Of course AKs, Mosins and others all contribute.
In Utah County shooters have to go to informal shooting spots on public land to shoot. And in the summer, the June and cheatgrass is tinder-dry. Add temps in the 90s and our low (under 20%) humidity and fires can start easily.

The biggest offender? Our favorite round, the 7.62x39mm. Cheap steel-jacketed ammo (and old steel core for all I know) in the popular SKS and AKs evidently can spark when contact is made with certain hard materials enough to start a brush fire. And has with an alarming frequency over the last several years. As in TEN+ firearm-started brush fires so far this year. In fact I think a 10th, the biggest so far, that caused 1500 homes to be evacuated, happened since the report linked was aired that said 9..

Of course any surplus Com-Bloc and other steel jacketed ammo in other calibers (7.62x54r etc) can be a problem. There has been a lot of discussion about this on local gun forums and in the media where the problem has been narrowed down. But some people never get the picture or think it can happen to them.

There has been serious talk of shooting bans as well, but we have avoided that so far. Here is a link to a local newscast on the subject. They fail to mention the steel-jacketed issue, but other reports have mentioned it in order to limit any shooting ban to that ammo.
www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=20810754&nid=148&title=despite-dangerous-fire-season-target-shooting-not-likely-to-be-banned&s_cid=featured-1

One report had the range master from my favorite local range explaining their magnet test policy put in place to eliminate this danger (a silly thing in Dec. though!)

So as much as I like our favorite guns and ammo I hope any SKS shooters in arid places will use extreme discretion when shooting for the common good.

[Ghost Rider]

You (they) can`t just blame Com-Bloc and other steel jacketed ammo for starting fires, because any ammo has the potential to start a fire if the conditions are right. We all need to be very carefull when shooting in very dry conditions and up to the point were it might not be a good idea to shoot at all if its extremely hot and dry.

The anti gun nazi`s are always looking for ways to impose more rules, regulations and restrictions on us, so we don`t need to help them out at all by being careless.

[Go_Yugo]

  I tried "a little harder" to burn my range down last year. I got a 200 rnd M60 belt of ammo from a friend for cheap,for my Hk91 clone. I delinked it and every 6th round or so was orange tip tracer,which I wisely segregated for a rainy day,literally.
  However,I found out SOME of the rounds had lost their tip paint. I was shooting into a dirt berm backdrop at our range at the 100,through a scope,and the guys started hollering at me. The tracers would hit the berm,and bounce back to almost the 30 yrd mark,i.e.,they were hitting rocks in the mixed media berm.
  I didn't realize it due to tunnel vision of the scope. And the grass on the range was catching fire from the phosphor that bounced back.
  I nearly got the ban-hammer for that one! BUT,the real lesson of the day,which the range master never could have seen w/out the tracers,is that he needed to truck in some better sifted berm media,due to the ricochets.

[Onepoint]

Its just lightening over here. They can ban that if they want though.

[Frisco Pete]

You (they) can`t just blame Com-Bloc and other steel jacketed ammo for starting fires, because any ammo has the potential to start a fire if the conditions are right. We all need to be very carefull when shooting in very dry conditions and up to the point were it might not be a good idea to shoot at all if its extremely hot and dry.

The anti gun nazi`s are always looking for ways to impose more rules, regulations and restrictions on us, so we don`t need to help them out at all by being careless.

Yeah. One fire in the foothills was started by shotgunners shooting the usual clay pigeons. That is hard for me to figure out how a shotgun could start a fire, but I guess the shooters ought to know.
Some shooters on one interview had a weed spray type pump full of water just in case.

[broncbob]

I have to wonder if it was the act of shooting, or some other activity the shooters did? Careless smoking, hot catalytic converter on dry grass, shooting steel with steel core ammo?

I'm not far from that shooting area Living in Riverton, but I refuse to go there due to it being all dumb arse hour, all the time out there. The last time I went was this spring to battle sight a AK. Some kid stopped across a small coolie behind us and directly in line with us and started to shoot into the bottom. It took a threat of returning fire to convince him to get back into his Honda and seek another place to shoot. He tried several times to convince us that he wasn't shooting AT us, aparently he didn't grasp that us being in direct line with what ever he was shooting at in the bottom of the coolie was the same as shooting at us.

[kyle78]

Maybe alittle control burn is in order. Fires are required by nature to replenish its self.

[ruston61]

 I burned off many acres from a M2 .50 cal once. Saved the state some money they didn't have to hire someone to burn off the range that year..

[Frisco Pete]

The National Guard did that a couple of years ago at Camp Williams, which is near where these other fires have been. Burned down a couple of nearby homes. It was a BIG out of control fire that machine gun started. Cost the government plenty.

[Frisco Pete]

The Governor of Utah has now given authority to the state forester the power to ban target shooting in unincorporated areas of the state where fire danger is high and will work with local authorities to start putting restrictions in place.

The governor had suggested he may well have the ability to ban fireworks and target shooting throughout the state, but said after the meeting with legislative leaders he didn't want to have that theory tested in court.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865558410/Gov-Herbert-says-he-may-have-ability-to-ban-fireworks-target-shooting-but-wants-lawmakers-on.html

As I mentioned before, local shooters have tried to get the word out to be extremely cautious and stay away from areas with combustible grass etc; not use bi-metal or steel core bullets, or shoot at anything that could cause a spark.
However it seems that many shooters don't really keep in touch with what is going on, or don't know enough about the ammo they are shooting out of their SKS, AR, or Mosin e.g. and have blithely just gone out shooting in the hills ignorantly.

I hope that shooters everywhere in the dry West will be responsible in their non-range target shooting and know what they are shooting as well. Better to regulate ourselves than have .gov step in.

There are also theories that in some cases, it wasn't shooting that started the blaze when they left, but carelessly tossed cigarette butts or some other unknown factor, but shooting took the blame. Certainly dry lightning, a automobile catalytic converter, and in the biggest fire, copper thieves who stole from a substation and may have created a situation where a short occurred have all contributed to the problem. And when you see those burned areas next to the road you have a pretty good idea that there are still idiots among us that can't find the ash tray.

The only bright side to this whole mess was a statement made by governor Herbert that is really amazing for a politician nowadays because it shows an uncommon amount of common sense in the face of the do-gooders constant pressure that "there ought to be a law":

"We can meet together and pass law after law after law. But you can't pass a law that outlaws stupid. We have foolish behavior going on out there," he said, calling again on Utahns to use common sense to prevent fires.

"We shouldn't say, 'Gee, is there a law against me parking my car over some dry weeds and maybe touching off a fire?' … Most fires are caused by foolish behaviors by us humans," Herbert said. "You can't have a law that covers everything."

[ranger1968]

 And this is the time when we, as good stewards of our sport, and the land , must be more responsible than ever;

  If you are shooting, be safe; safe in your conduct, but also aware of your surroundings; If there is high fire danger in the area, take extra care, and be vigilint....

 And always, please, clean up after yourself, and leave the place better than you found it; sometimes that means cleaning up after the last guy as well, but it's worth doing, and that ethic is what separates the true sportsman and outdoorsman from the selfish, ignorant jerks.

[wrightbrigade]

And this is the time when we, as good stewards of our sport, and the land , must be more responsible than ever;

  If you are shooting, be safe; safe in your conduct, but also aware of your surroundings; If there is high fire danger in the area, take extra care, and be vigilint....

 And always, please, clean up after yourself, and leave the place better than you found it; sometimes that means cleaning up after the last guy as well, but it's worth doing, and that ethic is what separates the true sportsman and outdoorsman from the selfish, ignorant jerks.

+1

[westcliffe01]

It appears that this was the incident which set this restriction in motion:
http://www.azfamily.com/news/Mesa-man-charged-for-starting-Sunflower-wildfire-with-shotgun-161156725.html

PAYSON, Ariz. -- Investigators say a Mesa, Ariz. man caused the Sunflower Fire near Payson by firing a shotgun while on a bachelor party camping trip in the Sycamore Creek area.

According to a criminal complaint released by the US Department of Justice, Steven Craig Shiflet, 23, is facing three counts in connection with the case.

Those counts include negligently placing an ignited substance that may cause a fire, firing incendiary ammunition, and causing a fire -- all on National Forest lands.

A conviction for each of the charges in the complaint carries a maximum penalty of six months in prison, a $5,000 fine, or both.

The Investigation into the source and origin of the Sunflower Fire indicated that the fire originated near the intersection of Forest Road 25 and Sycamore Creek on May 12.

According to the complaint, Shiflet and four of his friends had been shooting at targets for approximately two hours on the morning of May 12, at which point Shiflet loaded an incendiary shotgun shell into a shotgun and fired it.

Shortly after Shiflet fired the shot, smoke appeared in the brush just behind where the shot was fired.

Investigators say the men failed in their attempt to extinguish the fire. They called 911 and were told to leave the area by the 911 operator.

Witnesses gave investigators a license plate number for a white GMC Yukon that led them to one of the men who was on that trip. That man described how Shiflet had fired the incendiary shotgun shell.

Shiflet told investigators that the "flame throwing" shotgun round that he fired is probably what caused the fire.

Shiflet surrendered to investigators an orange Fiocchi 12 gauge shotgun shell which was still in its original packaging. Shiflet said that it was the exact same type of shotgun shell that he fired on May 12 just before the fire started.

The warning on the packaging of the shotgun shell reads, "Shoots 100 feet of fire, setting everything in its path ablaze. Warning Extreme FIRE HAZARD."

Shiflet is scheduled to make an initial appearance in federal court in Phoenix on July 13.

The Sunflower wildfire has now burned nearly 18,000 acres on the Tonto National Forest. It is 80 percent contained.

It firefight has cost $6 million dollars to date.

At one point this season, the Sunflower fire was the largest wildfire in the state.

According to a spokeswoman for the Tonto National Forest, fire restrictions were not in place on May 12, when the wildfire began. However, tracer bullets and incendiary ammunition are prohibited at all times, fire restrictions or not.

When fire restrictions are in place, target shooting is prohibited.

There has been an increase in fire starts from target shooting on the forest, according to officials.

In the Tonto National Forest, there were seven fires that were determined, after investigation, to be caused by firearms in 2010, 10 firearm fires in 2011, and five so far in 2012, counting the Sunflower Fire.

[westcliffe01]

It is also against the law in Utah to shoot tracer or incendiary rounds anywhere other than on a military range.

http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/FirearmLaws.html#Misc

It is unlawful to fire any tracer or incendiary ammunition in the state of Utah except within the confines of an established military reservation.It is unlawful to shoot or shoot at any signs or placards placed by the wildlife board or road signs on any highway.

[broncbob]

People here seam daft to how dry the state really is. As I type this, people are cooking off fireworks at a alarming rate to me. I flooded my pasture, and the neighbors this after noon hoping to ward off any errant sparks from the city's firework show, and any thing my neighbors. The city's show goes off right acros the street from me, and the neighbor behind me has been having a fun 4th.

The barn behind my shop burned down the first night of the "Machine gun fire", I don't think it was related? The Rose Canyon fire had me concerned though.