Author Topic: Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?  (Read 1857 times)

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Motodeficient

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Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?
« on: September 11, 2012, 09:46:35 PM »
I bought my first SKS a few weeks ago. Its a Chinese CGA. Its in really nice condition and I paid $269. I like the rifle quite a bit. I believe the CGA is a commercial production version. This means its has no military history at all correct? I suppose it wouldn't anyway, as my serial number starts with 90 which I believe is the year of production. It would be expected that all of the numbers on a commercial SKS would match, right? All of the numbers on my rifle match (bolt carrier, bolt, receiver, stock, magazine, trigger guard). The number on the receiver cover does not match, however. Strange.

I have been reading all the history and info I can about the SKS. Read through everything on Yooper John's a few times. Kind of a bummer my SKS doesn't have any of the military history that the guns on Yooper's outline. Oh well, I still like it!

Here is the obligatory picture


Old Outlaw

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Re: Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2012, 09:52:45 PM »
You may consider the fact that a previous owner put on a receiver cover scope mount and then got rid of it and bought another one. Happens all the time!!
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CommanderMB

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Re: Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2012, 03:26:05 AM »
I have a red dot site mounted on my new receiver cover.  I kept the original so as to b able to return to original config.  I agree that it's possible that the receiver cover mis-match may b due to similar situation but cover was not saved.

Motodeficient

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Re: Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2012, 06:58:50 AM »
Yeah thanks guys. I am not worried about the receiver cover not matching. Its not like this rifle has historic value anyway. I appreciate it for what it is: A good looking, well functioning SKS.

Norinco is also a commercial production gun right? I have read in many places that CGA is just pre-Norinco. And that both companies are just companies run by the Chinese government to handle exporting of the rifles.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 07:12:54 AM by Motodeficient »

Lafayettegregory

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Re: Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2012, 10:58:52 AM »
Yeah thanks guys. I am not worried about the receiver cover not matching. Its not like this rifle has historic value anyway. I appreciate it for what it is: A good looking, well functioning SKS.

Norinco is also a commercial production gun right? I have read in many places that CGA is just pre-Norinco. And that both companies are just companies run by the Chinese government to handle exporting of the rifles.
The only commercial production run of SKS specifically made for the American market were the SKS  "D" and "M". Also, Some military SKS were modified for  Navy Arms in the 1980/90's. There were other stateside companies that also modified military Chinese rifles. Midwest, and a few others - But the Chinese rifles started as military rifles.    These could also be considered commercial. But, even the Navy Arms rifles started out as military rifles.
All other sks are made as a military use rifle. China makes these to sell. They used them in their military, their factories produced them for military use. There was no separation in MFG  that denoted military or distributor sales. China made them to arm the millions of military they expected to arm. Under their communist work program, they made a lot of them!  They later sold them to the highest bidder.
 There is no difference in any Chinese SKS made for the military or sold to distributors other than the above mentioned examples. They are all Military rifles.   
China sold these rifles with various stamps on the receiver and the ATF requires that import rifles be import marked. There are no stampings that denote military use or commercial production. They are ALL made for sale to world militarises or to distributors who also sell them world wide.
Many Chinese  SKS shipped to the US, came directly from the military/Government storage faculties in China and never saw service. They arrived here unfired and unissued. That does not mean they were not military rifles. Many more rifles came from the Chinese military/Government storage faculties that had seen service, battle weary, bruised and used. 

So - If it is marked, Norinco, Polytec etc.....That is simply an import mark denoting the importer, not a designation of the rifle.

There is no question of military use when there are bring back papers as a documented war trophy.   
 
To designate any Chinese SKS that is not a sks "D" or "M", or stateside Bubba job-  -- "Commercial" -- is incorrect.
   

Motodeficient

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Re: Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2012, 11:09:20 AM »
Thank you, that is very informative!

But it leads to more confusion for me. There are no stampings, marks, or anything on my entire rifle except for

"Made in China by CGA". "Imported by GLNIC, CA, USA"

I believe the gun was made in 1990 because of the 90 in the front of the serial number on the receiver.

The only markings other markings are the serial number on the receiver, bolt, bolt carrier, stock, magazine, and trigger guard... No other markings, cartouches or anything. These serial numbers all match, except the "90" is left off the front.

Why would China make an SKS in 1990 that was intended for military use? Why wouldn't there be any arsenal markings?

Sorry if these questions are silly or obvious. I just like information!  :banghead:

Greatguns

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Re: Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 11:49:34 AM »
There is no way to date any Chinese SKS except for factory /26\ any effort to date any Chinese SKS is pure speculation. Any stamping, as AKBlue said, like 'made in China by ........' is import stamping or possibly export stamping. Norinco, CGA, and any other entity that comes after 'made in China by' is a distribution front of the Chinese government in order to work with the firearms business world.

As to your rifle not having other markings, it is known that many Chinese SKSs came into the country missing much of their markings. How and why is also speculation and we will probably never know.
All SN stamped parts on a Chinese SKS use only the last 5 digits of the SN so what you are seeing is normal.

Motodeficient

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Re: Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2012, 12:06:58 PM »
Thanks for that.

Following the Yooper's info, all of my parts fit into the "80's production" catagories. Beyond that, I guess we can't know.

From reading this thread

http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=5329.0

It seems like it is most likely a People's Militia surplus rifle:

Quote
PEOPLE’s MILITIA SURPLUS RIFLES

Introduction: This category includes Type 56 Carbines produced at provincial, county, or municipal factories working part time to supply needs of party-controlled militias, mid-1960s to the present.

Features: Original parts commonly associated with late model SKS rifles, such as spike bayonets, pinned barrels, and stamped assemblies, subassemblies and parts.

Identifiers: No arsenal cartouche, no Chinese ideographs, very short serial numbers (four or five digits), or serials beginning with an 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, or 94 stamped in a font larger than the remaining number and the word NORINCO presented in BIG letters after the serial on the left side of receiver.

Numbers: Relatively uncommon this side of the Pacific; very common over there where tens of millions remain in stores for a proverbial rainy day.  The requirement to provide arms for hordes on reserve service is huge.

Comments: These weapons were built to a low standard.  NORINCO is stamped on many PLA and Non-PLA issue military surplus rifles, of course, only not in so prominent a way as these Militia Surplus weapons.

Greatguns

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Re: Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2012, 12:21:42 PM »
Good research, looks like you now have about as much info on your SKS as you are probably going to get. It is a little satisfying to have that info. Especially when talking to others about it. Makes you sound like you really know what you're talking about. :lol: :lol:

Now all that is left is to enjoy it.

Capt Crunch

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Re: Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2012, 10:45:31 AM »
I've always wondered myself why countries like China continued (or do they still continue?) to make SKS's up into the 2000's.  I know they use some of them for marching and guards but why not make AK's instead?  Is there a philosophy in those countries that believes that the SKS is maybe more accurate (I believe they are) or do they just make them as a secondary rifle for lightly armed troops?  Also, is the SKS cheaper to produce than the AK, I would think they are about even myself and in the grand scheme of things I would think it would be more efficient to just make one rifle.

Motodeficient

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Re: Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2012, 11:08:20 AM »
Thats exactly what I was wondering. I am not positive if my rifle was made in 1990 or imported in 1990, but according to the Yooper site, it matches all of the late 80's chinese production characteristics, so its a later made rifle for sure. Why would they make this rifle to arm their People's Militia instead of the venerable AK-47? I don't think the AK would be any more difficult for soldiers to maintain than the SKS, and we know both are extremely reliable weapons. I can't image its cheaper to make a milled SKS than it is a stampted out AK-47? Maybe though, I have no idea. One of the mysteries of life I suppose.

Prince50

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Re: Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2012, 11:11:51 AM »
It would be far more expensive to produce an SKS than an AK. China tried to manufacture a stamped receiver SKS that failed overall, There are a few examples of them here in the states, and I have one. It usually ended up destroying the stock, when fired, so it was not ever put into large production.

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Motodeficient

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Re: Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2012, 11:16:18 AM »
Right so why continue you to make them for 35+ years after they adopted the much cheaper to build AK?

AKBLUE

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Re: Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2012, 11:30:30 AM »
I've always wondered myself why countries like China continued (or do they still continue?) to make SKS's up into the 2000's.  I know they use some of them for marching and guards but why not make AK's instead?  Is there a philosophy in those countries that believes that the SKS is maybe more accurate (I believe they are) or do they just make them as a secondary rifle for lightly armed troops?  Also, is the SKS cheaper to produce than the AK, I would think they are about even myself and in the grand scheme of things I would think it would be more efficient to just make one rifle.

Virtually all the Chinese SKS rifles in the USA except a few bringbacks never saw action in any case.  The SKS was a wdely produced rifle but a second tier firearm to the AK47/M by the 1970's.  It was not a general infantry rifle for any length of time., a bit like the short lived M14 but stayed in production longer as a domestic use firearm.
Vietnam and some use of Yugoslavian SKS's in the Balkan War would have been the major use of these weapons in actual combat.

As noted the SKS and its's parts are military production., and in the later 80's or 90's production was mainly from refurbing old weapons and built from new old stock (NOS) parts already in inventory from the 70"s 80's and old firearms stripped for parts etc.. 
Similar to the communist philosophy of the Mosin Nagant to employ workers and rebuild and refurbish old rifles as second or third tier firearms well into the 1960's and supply them to satellite countries etc.  Cheaper than new production for the masses of the cold war era.
Each rifle has a history but a Chinese SKS in most cases was not a combat weapon.  But then again only about 10% of military personnel and their weapons are actual infantry combatants., the rest being support.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 11:47:37 AM by AKBLUE »

Motodeficient

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Re: Whats the deal with commercial production SKS's?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2012, 12:03:57 PM »
I've always wondered myself why countries like China continued (or do they still continue?) to make SKS's up into the 2000's.  I know they use some of them for marching and guards but why not make AK's instead?  Is there a philosophy in those countries that believes that the SKS is maybe more accurate (I believe they are) or do they just make them as a secondary rifle for lightly armed troops?  Also, is the SKS cheaper to produce than the AK, I would think they are about even myself and in the grand scheme of things I would think it would be more efficient to just make one rifle.

Virtually all the Chinese SKS rifles in the USA except a few bringbacks never saw action in any case.  The SKS was a wdely produced rifle but a second tier firearm to the AK47/M by the 1970's.  It was not a general infantry rifle for any length of time., a bit like the short lived M14 but stayed in production longer as a domestic use firearm.
Vietnam and some use of Yugoslavian SKS's in the Balkan War would have been the major use of these weapons in actual combat.

As noted the SKS and its's parts are military production., and in the later 80's or 90's production was mainly from refurbing old weapons and built from new old stock (NOS) parts already in inventory from the 70"s 80's and old firearms stripped for parts etc.. 
Similar to the communist philosophy of the Mosin Nagant to employ workers and rebuild and refurbish old rifles as second or third tier firearms well into the 1960's and supply them to satellite countries etc.  Cheaper than new production for the masses of the cold war era.
Each rifle has a history but a Chinese SKS in most cases was not a combat weapon.  But then again only about 10% of military personnel and their weapons are actual infantry combatants., the rest being support.

Ah, that does make sense. Thanks for the explanation.