Author Topic: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?  (Read 1364 times)

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bill may

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Re: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2013, 12:09:37 PM »
I have seen "Dark bores" be nothing more then just needing a good cleaning.
or send a few rounds down range.
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bch7773

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Re: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2013, 01:17:39 PM »
The Molot "controversy" was over the collectivity of their rifles. Their snipers were obviously not original snipers like the ones RGuns has been offering for some time, but at the price for a scoped 91/30 a lot of people have jumped on them. No one argued that they weren't good shooters, just that they were "imitations" which is technically accurate. Classic and several others have also sold "copies" without a disclaimer that they weren't original, but there's always discrepancies that  can be spotted if you know your stuff.

the molot imports are just as valid as the Rguns imports.  They were both rearsenaled in 1950s soviet Russia sniper rifles.  They are both FAR cries from the century reproductions.

I'm guessing you have an Rguns sniper?  A lot of people who had those desperately wanted the Molots to be less collectable, as Rguns had charged about $300 more for their rifles as they were the only importer for years.
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Hodgie

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Re: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2013, 05:30:12 PM »
Rguns has lowered their prices on what they have left over the last year from to $800.00 I know when they 1st brought their stock in they were up to or a bit over $1100.00 with several options. If you wanted hand pick all numbers matching with matching scope that was the $1100.00 deal they no longer have those options left hence the drastic price drops.

I was very close to getting one of theirs when I called to and inquired about them, I was told that  the scope, scope mount and rifles may all be mismatched from each other and the rifle may have mismatched parts at the $899.00 price tag they had this time last year I decided to pass and went with the PU which my thinking was pretty much the same thing at the very least.

I am not saying I am correct but I still have not seen any evidence that my pu's with all the correct markings which have been verified multiple times were not once legit snipers in the past, even if they were once ex snipers turned back into snipers by molot then It was still a sniper.

If I had endless coin I would still get a Rguns sniper just to do a side by side comparison.
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Capybara

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Re: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2013, 07:06:30 PM »
Well gents, I gave in and ordered two of the 1944 Tulas from J&G for $199.00. We'll see what ships in a week or two and I will post pictures and bore pictures. The way I am looking at it, I have lots of M44s and most are Izhevsks (have a Hungarian and a Romanian as well) and most are 1944s, the most common year for the Izhevsk. This was a chance to score a couple of Tulas for less than what I paid for the Izhevsks about a year ago and J&G rates them as VG condition. It is a gamble and if I get a couple with sewer pipe bores, I am still going to hang onto them for a few years. Fingers crossed. My only deal breakers are pitting and cracked stocks. If they don't have either, I will be more than satisfied at less than $200.00 for a Russian. 

scarymike23

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Re: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2013, 03:28:10 PM »
Well gents, I gave in and ordered two of the 1944 Tulas from J&G for $199.00. We'll see what ships in a week or two and I will post pictures and bore pictures. The way I am looking at it, I have lots of M44s and most are Izhevsks (have a Hungarian and a Romanian as well) and most are 1944s, the most common year for the Izhevsk. This was a chance to score a couple of Tulas for less than what I paid for the Izhevsks about a year ago and J&G rates them as VG condition. It is a gamble and if I get a couple with sewer pipe bores, I am still going to hang onto them for a few years. Fingers crossed. My only deal breakers are pitting and cracked stocks. If they don't have either, I will be more than satisfied at less than $200.00 for a Russian.

How did you get Tulas? I didn't see that as an option. Did they sell out of them or some such?
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doncb

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Re: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2013, 12:01:26 AM »
The Molot "controversy" was over the collectivity of their rifles. Their snipers were obviously not original snipers like the ones RGuns has been offering for some time,.....

Actually, they have been validated as real original snipers by a person on another forum that knows.

I picked up an updated Dragoon at Cabela's that is a Molot. The only difference between it and the other Mosin rifles I have was that it wasn't slathered in cosmo. No more or less collectable than any other Mosin.
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Brasky

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Re: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2013, 08:13:18 AM »
A guy tried selling me a "Molot" PU sniper. Except for the problem that it was a 1939 Tula. No matter how many times he tried to tell me it was authentic I wasn't buying it

Capybara

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Re: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2013, 07:38:37 PM »
They sold out quickly as Tula M44s are considerably rarer than Izhevsk. When I ordered though, in the notes, I asked to charge me the extra $30.00 for non counter bored, shiny bored Tulas. The guys in the J&G sales department were nice enough to call me and let me know that they only had one Tula left that was not counter bored and they had one last Tula that was counter bored with a dark bore. They asked what I wanted to do so I said ship me the Tula with the good bore and and I will instead take an Izhevsk with a good bore/non-counter bored. So we will see what shows up next week, but I appreciated that they called me and asked me.

Well gents, I gave in and ordered two of the 1944 Tulas from J&G for $199.00. We'll see what ships in a week or two and I will post pictures and bore pictures. The way I am looking at it, I have lots of M44s and most are Izhevsks (have a Hungarian and a Romanian as well) and most are 1944s, the most common year for the Izhevsk. This was a chance to score a couple of Tulas for less than what I paid for the Izhevsks about a year ago and J&G rates them as VG condition. It is a gamble and if I get a couple with sewer pipe bores, I am still going to hang onto them for a few years. Fingers crossed. My only deal breakers are pitting and cracked stocks. If they don't have either, I will be more than satisfied at less than $200.00 for a Russian.

How did you get Tulas? I didn't see that as an option. Did they sell out of them or some such?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 12:06:35 AM by Capybara »

Capybara

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Re: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2013, 07:11:39 PM »
As promised, here are some quick snaps of the two new M44s. The top one is a 1944 Tula, the bottom, a 1945 Izhevsk. First image is with flash to show wood grain, the rest, I turned flash off, too much glare and I am just using my point and shoot camera, no way to bounce the flash to soften the glare so I just turned it off.

With Flash


Without Flash






Check out the difference in the small finger groove in the stock just to the right of the rear barrel band. Interesting, the one on top is Hungarian, the bottom, Russian.




1945 Izhevsk stock repair


1945 Izhevsk Butt Plate


1945 Izhevsk Bolt w lots of arsenal marks


1945 Izhevsk w Good old PW Arms Billboard

Capybara

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Re: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2013, 07:12:51 PM »
1945 Izhevsk Receiver with some scrubbing/rust? Also lots of interesting arsenal marks


All numbers matched on the Izhevsk


Arsenal marks on stock, this rifle has been around, re-arsenaled many times it seems


1945 Izhevsk Bolt


1945 Izhevsk Bore - nice and shiny, non counterbored. Very happy with this, well worth the $30.00 bump


1944 Tula Bore - basically the same, non counterbored, nice and shiny also


1944 Tula Stock and Butt Plate. Here is where things get interesting with this rifle. A Hungarian stock on a 1944 Tula re-arsenal? Not unheard of but you don't expect to see a Hungarian stock on a Russian, it is usually the other way around.


1944 Tula - Also a Hungarian rear sight?


1944 Tula - Check out the receiver, pretty unusual font for "44"? I have not seen one like this and none of my other Mosins use this font


1944 Tula - Check out the sanding/scrubbing on the bolt knob. Pretty weird, I have not seen this before either.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 07:41:39 PM by Capybara »

Capybara

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Re: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2013, 07:13:33 PM »
1945 Izhevsk - Little bit of rust on the trigger guard, or that could be dried cosmo? I will find out when I clean it.


1945 Izhevsk - Little bit of a rusted front barrel band. No big deal to me, but I am going to pull these from the stocks to look for rust and pitting underneath the stock. Interesting fore end repair


1944 Tula - It's a matching numbers gun except for the forced match floor plate


1945 Izhevsk - Lots of arsenal marks on the stock on this one, really, they appear everywhere. Wish I knew what all of them meant.


Overall, I am very happy with both of these. First Tula Mosin I have had, lots of interesting marks and history with both of these. The bolt on the Izhevsk is super smooth, almost loose, like many of my other M44s, the bolt on the Tula is a bit sticker and may require a cosmoline hunt once the barrel heats up.

Neither rifle has much in the way of cosmoline, just traces of it and some waxy storage grease that doesn't feel like cosmo.

Trigger on the Tula is gritty and has a lot of take up, trigger on the Izhevsk has a little less take up and is a lot smoother. Both rifles came with cleaning rod, oil can, Mosin tool and cleaning rod attachment. No slings or ammo pouches. Both came with the Molot little brochure.

Both rifles have what I think is the Molot stamp near the tang?
 

While both rifles are interesting, the Tula, in particular, with it's Hungarian stock and rear sight, weird font on the "44" on the receiver and the unusual symbol underneath it, seems to be a bit out of the ordinary. Anyone have any interesting knowledge or observations about either rifle? So I paid $179.00 for the Izhevsk and $229.00 for the Tula. I feel as if these rifles were an excellent buy and I am happy and proud to add them to my collection.

Hope all of you who ordered do just as well.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 07:28:34 PM by Capybara »

Liberal Sheepdog

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Re: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2013, 08:24:16 PM »
You did very well! The font on the '44 Tula matches the font of my '44 Tula that was imported by Aztec. Would you be able to report back as to if the tang marking has the Izhevsk arrow with the '44 date on it? My Tula does.... just curious as to if mine is an oddity or the norm. Not a lot is known about Tula m44's. The Hungarian stock on yours is definitely a head-scratcher  :shock:

As far as the Molot debate goes, I used to go along with the conspiracy theory angle of them making parts guns (fakes). After seeing examples of the Mosin family they have imported, I am more inclined to believe that they simply acquired a bunch of Mosin Nagants and imported them. If I wasn't getting out of the 7.62x54r caliber, I would be inclined to grab as many of the Molot PU's that I could get my hands on.
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Capybara

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Re: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2013, 10:30:54 PM »
Thanks for confirmation about the font on the "44", I only have a '54 Tula SKS and it uses a normal font so I guess this was just a quirky stamp from that one year during the war when Tula turned out M44s. Just found out from a poster on another board that "2" is just an arsenal mark. "02" is made in Hungary, that little zero makes it so. You learn something new every day about Mosins.

AKBLUE

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Re: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2013, 09:59:35 AM »
Yes., the stock is not Hungarian.  A Hungarian M44 stock besides any 02 markings or proofs has a different front sling slot location.  Unique among all Mosin Nagant variants and easy to spot if you know what to look for.
One other slight correction.  A counterbored rifle is not a "bad bore" vs "good bore"., it is a modification to a rifle done at refurb to correct some crown or forward barrel defects.  While a non counterbored rifle is likely more desirable to most., it does not mean the counterbored rifle is any less a shooter or less accurate.  Only range time will determine that.

Capybara

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Re: J&G Has Mosin M44s for a mere $149.00?
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2013, 10:14:20 AM »
Thanks for the reply. Oh I know all about counter bored Mosins, my 91/30 is counter bored about two inches. It doesn't bother me, especially on the ridiculously long barrel of a 91/30 (projectile is spinning pretty well by the time it hits that last inch or two of smooth bore) but if I decide to sell these in a few years, counter bored is less desirable on the market and brings less money. For a shooter, doesn't matter at all, but for collectors, they much prefer no counter bore.