Author Topic: 7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?  (Read 6635 times)

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troberts

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7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?
« on: April 30, 2008, 08:47:24 PM »
Hi all, an ex-raf guy up here tell's me that the 7.62 X 39 is interchangeable with a .308.  Can anyone tell me if he is right. I know that the FN 7.62 I used to own would shoot .308 in a pinch.

micmacman

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Re: 7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2008, 08:54:08 PM »
7.62x39 no,7.62x51 is the closest to Winchester .308
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e3mrk

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Re: 7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2008, 09:00:50 PM »
The 7.62x39 Bullet is 310-312 Diameter and the 308 is just that,308 Diameter.
Just a bit of a difference, Kind of like putting a BB in a Soft Drink Straw.

SKEricsson

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Re: 7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2008, 09:02:01 PM »
That is right, 7.62 x 51mm is interchangeable with .308 - most of the times.  I have been told that a rifle chambered for 7.62x51 will also shoot .308, but not the other way around for some reason.  Not sure how accurate that is, either.
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abra-cadaver

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Re: 7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2008, 09:06:40 PM »
 I have always believed one should load a firearm with the cartridge it was chambered for. If you want to experiment at least wear a cup. :evil3:
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jrb

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Re: 7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2008, 09:08:31 PM »
better to remain silent and look like a fool,than to open your mouth,and remove all doubt.tell your ex raf friend that.The 7.62 x 39 is not interchangeable with a 308. [-X
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troberts

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Re: 7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2008, 09:09:24 PM »
Now that's the best answer I've gotten yet. Thks Guy's.

nevada

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Re: 7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2008, 09:51:22 PM »
Most 308 is loaded to higher pressures than 7.62 x 51, aka 7.62 nATO, and may damage semi-auto battle rifles due to that higher pressure. Big difference in length between 7.62 x 39 and 308. So JRB is right, although my 7.62 x 39 bullets are 308 in diameter (Yes, SUPPOSED to be 311) and that might be what he is talking about.

jblomenberg16

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Re: 7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2008, 10:07:48 PM »
better to remain silent and look like a fool,than to open your mouth,and remove all doubt.tell your ex raf friend that.The 7.62 x 39 is not interchangeable with a 308. [-X

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Average Joe

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Re: 7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2008, 06:18:27 PM »
Not interchangeable, not even close...

nzsealion

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Re: 7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2008, 06:11:02 AM »
I had a brit try to tell me the same thing, so maybe a pommie urban legend.

Yes definatly to x51 in a .308.

ruston61

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Re: 7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2008, 09:12:28 AM »
The main difference in .308 Win. vs 7.62x51 the NATO round has thicker brass thus it hold less powder that is where the pressure difference comes from...
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SGT ROCK

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Re: 7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2008, 10:02:38 AM »
If we are talking bullets only, as in reloading (not complete cartridges), then they are interchangable.
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RDM1984

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Re: 7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2008, 02:10:42 PM »
That is right, 7.62 x 51mm is interchangeable with .308 - most of the times.  I have been told that a rifle chambered for 7.62x51 will also shoot .308, but not the other way around for some reason.  Not sure how accurate that is, either.

IIRC, it's the other way around.  7.62 NATO will work in a .308, but .308 can be bad in a 7.62.  .308 is loaded to higher pressures (hunters wanted "more power") and the chamber dimensions are slightly different, opening the door to possible headspace problems.  It partially has to do with metric vs. inch stuff in some cases, given that most of the NATO countries use metric.   

Civilian cartridge cases are typically thinner than their Mil-Spec counterparts.  This just increases the chances of something going wrong, in combination with all the other stuff. 

An illustration of the possible difference in headspace:



The same stuff with increased pressures is one reason why you shouldn't shoot commercial post-war .30-'06 hunting loads in a M1 Garand that hasn't been modified to handle them.  Bent op-rods and damaged gas systems can occur otherwise. 

Quote
What's the Difference between .308 Winchester & 7.62x51mm NATO?

by Clint McKee and Walt Kuleck

dumb question i alway thought these 2 ammos where interchangeable but some have told me otherwise whats the story??? jim
Hi, Jim,

This is a perennial topic, kinda like ".45 vs. 9mm" or "Best Guns & Loads for Deer."

They are not the same.

They are the same.

They are not the same, 'cause the .308 Win was released by Winchester several years before the Army standarized the T64E3 as the 7.62MM. You'll get an endless discussion of pressure specs, endless because SAAMI and the Ordnance Dep't measured pressure in different, unrelateable ways. Howver, the chamber drawings are different.

They are the same, 'cause nobody (and Clint's been looking for many years!) makes 7.62MM ammo that isn't to the .308 "headspace" dimension spec. So 7.62MM ammo fits nicely into .308 chambers, as a rule.

But in some 7.62MM rifles the chambers are long (to the 7.62MM military spec), notably the Navy Garands with 7.62MM barrels. Thus, using commercial ammo in such a rifle is not a good idea; you need stronger brass. Use military ammo or the best commercial only, e.g., Federal Gold Medal Match.

Most of the time it's a distinction without a difference. But if you intend to shoot .308 commercial in a military arm chambered for 7.62MM, first check the headspace with .308 commercial gauges first. You may get a surprise.

Best regards,

Walt Kuleck
Fulton Armory webmaster

Clint, What's the difference between .308 Winchester & 7.62x51mm NATO?
Jerry Kuhnhausen, in his classic Shop Manual (available from Fulton Armory; see the M1 Rifle Parts & Accessories or M14 Rifle Parts and Accessories Pages under Books) has published a somewhat controversial recommendation concerning .308 Winchester and 7.62x51mm NATO ammo, headspace & chambers. I broached the subject with him some months ago. He had his plate full, so we decided to chat on this in the future. When we do I'll report the results of our conversation.

I completely agree with Jerry that if you have a chamber with headspace much in excess of 1.636 (say, 1.638, SAAMI field reject), you must use only U.S. or NATO Mil Spec Ammo (always marked 7.62mm & with a cross enclosed by a circle) since the NATO mil spec calls for a far more "robust" brass case than often found in commercial (read .308 Winchester) cartridges. It is precisely why Lake City brass is so highly sought. Lake City brass is Nato spec and reloadable (most NATO is not reloadable, rather it is Berdan primed). Indeed, cheaper commercial ammo can fail at the 1.638 headspace (e.g., UMC) in an M14/M1 Garand. Many military gas guns (e.g., M14 Rifles & M60 Machine guns) run wildly long headspace by commercial (SAAMI) standards (U.S. Military field reject limit for the M60 & M14 is 1.6455, nearly 16 thousandths beyond commercial (SAAMI) GO, & nearly 8 thousandths beyond commercial (SAAMI) field reject limit!).

I also agree that 1.631-1.632 is a near perfect headspace for an M14/M1A or M1 Garand chambered in .308 Winchester. But I think that it also near perfect for 7.62mm NATO!

I have measured many, many types/manufacturers of commercial and NATO ammo via cartridge "headspace" gauges as well as "in rifle" checks. If anything, I have found various Nato ammo to be in much tighter headspace/chamber compliance than commercial ammo. Indeed, sometimes commercial ammo can not be chambered "by hand" in an M14/M1A with, say, 1.631 headspace (bolt will not close completely by gentle hand manipulation on a stripped bolt, although it will close & function when chambered by the force of the rifle's loading inertia), though I have never seen this with NATO spec ammo. I.e., if anything, NATO ammo seems to hold at the minimum SAAMI cartridge headspace of 1.629-1.630, better than some commercial ammo!

So, why set a very long 1.636 headspace in an M14/M1A or M1 Garand? It probably is the conflict mentioned above. Military headspace gauges say one thing, SAAMI headspace gauges say something else, as do the spec's/compliance covering ammo. In a court of law, who will prevail? I think Kuhnhausen gave all those who do this work a safe way out. However, I believe it not in your, or your rifle's, best interest. Whether you have a NATO chambered barrel (M14/M1 Garand G.I. ".308 Win."/7.62mm NATO barrels all have NATO chambers), or a .308 Winchester chamber, keep the headspace within SAAMI limits (1.630 GO, 1.634 NO GO, 1.638 FIELD REJECT). This subject is a bit confusing, and for me difficult to explain in a one way conversation!

Clint McKee

http://www.fulton-armory.com/308.htm

Another link illustrating the difference in headspacing: http://www.thegunzone.com/30cal.html

A former Canadian military armorer explaining the difference in headspacing: http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/7_62vs308.htm






« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 02:39:21 PM by RDM1984 »

tennessee hayre

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Re: 7.62 X 39 Ammo Interchangeable?
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2009, 07:31:49 PM »
You can load the surplus 7.62 x 51 ammo into a rifle chambered in .308 all day long with no problems, but NEVER load .308 ammo in a rifle marked 7.62 x 51 rifle. It will most likely blow up in your face. :roll:
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