Author Topic: Hodgeson H322 and 62 grain ss109 .223  (Read 3067 times)

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Bonesaw

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Hodgeson H322 and 62 grain ss109 .223
« on: June 25, 2009, 02:10:48 AM »
Does anyone know of a good load or a starting load for this combo? I was given this powder and while I do know the recipe for a 55 grain bullet, I need a recipe for the ss109 62 grain bullet. I just ran out of AA2230 and this is all I have at the moment so I gotta use it :)
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Frisco Pete

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Re: Hodgeson H322 and 62 grain ss109 .223
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009, 01:10:54 PM »
I feel your pain on "this is all I have at the moment"!  :(
While I don't feel that H-322 is ideal for the heavier 62-gr bullet it will work - here is some data for 60-grain bullets that is as close as I can get to the 62 M855:

Hornady: 60 grain - start 20.7 / max 23.1

Nosler: 60 grain - start 21.5 / max 23.5* (*most accurate load)

Sierra: 60 grain - start 21.7 / max 23.8
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Bonesaw

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Re: Hodgeson H322 and 62 grain ss109 .223
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2009, 07:30:32 PM »
i did some research on the 'net and it seems there's two places to start. One member of another forum says he uses 19.5 grains as a starting load, while this guy on reloaders.net said he does 22 grains with a 63 grain bullet.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail.asp?CaliberID=18&Powder=Hodgdon+H322&LoadID=6518


given this info, would a starting load of say 20 grains be safe?
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Bonesaw

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Re: Hodgeson H322 and 62 grain ss109 .223
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2009, 07:34:28 PM »
i'm using 21.3 grains of AA2230 for my 62 grain loads but ran out, would 21.3 grains of H322 work also? this is for an AR-15, not a bolt gun btw.
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Frisco Pete

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Re: Hodgeson H322 and 62 grain ss109 .223
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2009, 11:51:42 PM »
The 63 grain bullet is a rather short semi-spitzer so it is not an apples-to-apples duplicate of the long 62-gr FMJBT SS109.
However I would use the more reliable data from the 3 load manuals I listed over some internet recipe. 
The 60 grain spitzer data will be close enough - within a 1/2 grain or less.  Personally I would start with 21.5 grains and load the next test series at 22.0, 22.5, 23.0 and perhaps even 23.5 - watching out for pressure signs along the way and dropping down at least 0.5 grains if you see pressure signs like a round ejector mark on the headstamp/rim base area or other established signs. 

The AR15 can run higher-than-SAAMI spec NATO ammo, though your reloads shouldn't be quite that hot.  In fact too low pressure loads in the AR an cause problems with cycling or may run dirty.  Bolt actions can't run any hotter loads in .223 than the ARs except that the superior extraction of a bolt can help with sticky too-hot loads where an AR may just tear the rim off.  Needless to say, if you keep your SS-109 load around 0.5 grains lower than the average maximum (23.0) you should be fine - though this is not to say that you can skip the load work-up steps for a check on pressure and to find an accuracy "node" as well.     
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Bonesaw

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Re: Hodgeson H322 and 62 grain ss109 .223
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2009, 12:06:34 AM »
cool that's what i'll do then, thanks for the help! :-D
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AlamoScout

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Re: Hodgeson H322 and 62 grain ss109 .223
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2009, 02:23:35 AM »
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp  I had found it for you but the link makes you start over, just put in rifle/223 and click find data, then scroll down it has them listed, if this doesnt help look at the bottom for a link to hodgdon and it has it also.

Frisco Pete

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Re: Hodgeson H322 and 62 grain ss109 .223
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2009, 10:50:59 AM »
I see that Hodgdon starts at 22.0 grains and max is 23.5 for the 60 grain V-Max bullet and H-322 so that data falls in line with the rest.

With the 63 Sierra SP it is start 20.0 and max is 22.0 which is surprisingly lower - so I looked at Sierra AR15 .223 data for the same bullet and H-322 and it has start 21.9 / max 23.3 grains.  This data reinforces the fact that I think that the max working load will be in the 23.0 grain area.

As I side note: Sierra and Hornady rifle data drives me a little nuts because they have a powder charge that corresponds the closest to an EVEN velocity like 3000 fps and they basically round the velocity of, say 23.3 grains which might be 2782 or 2841 fps to "2800" and use an ODD number powder charge.
I much prefer outfits like Speer, Nosler, and Hodgdon that use EVEN and logical powder charge steps like 22.5, 23.0, 23.5 and ODD or ACTUAL velocity for that powder charge.  I especially like it when the load, although made up in a tight test barrel, is shot for velocity in an actual firearm like Speer does.  Nosler does a similar thing as well.
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AlamoScout

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Re: Hodgeson H322 and 62 grain ss109 .223
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2009, 12:00:16 PM »
This is off topic but I thought you were not suppose to shoot the large bullets in the standard ar15 barrels? They have a different barrel for the larger bullets? To much pressure?

Frisco Pete

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Re: Hodgeson H322 and 62 grain ss109 .223
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2009, 12:13:27 AM »
I assume by "large" you mean heavier than the classic 55 grain as opposed to a larger diameter?  
Both the AR15 and bolt .223s originally came with a 1-12" barrel twist rate tailored to the original 55-gr FMJ-BT M193 bullet.  Starting in the 1980s efforts were made to improve downrange performance and penetration.  FN came up with the SS-109 62-gr FMJ-BT bullet and we decided on using it (but called the M855).  To shoot this new longer and heavier bullet the 1-12" M16 A1 was phased out and the 1-7" twist M16 A2 and M4 Carbine were phased in.

Match shooters then started to experiment with heavy match bullets since the new 1-7" twist rate would stabilize them and they offered better wind-bucking performance in match shooting with a trajectory matching the .308 Match round.  They found that 1-7" would stabilize even 80+ grain bullets.  Therefore a whole slew of heavy match bullets are available.
There are also .223 twists of 1-8" and 1-9" besides the old 1-12".  The light bullets will stabilize and shoot okay in the quick twist barrels, but the heavier 62+ grain bullets will not stabilize and will keyhole when used in too slow of a twist.  This in itself is not dangerous - just inaccurate.  For the last decade or two virtually all AR15s come with either a 1-7, 1-8, or 1-9" twist rate - so this range can now be considered normal AR15 barrel twist - so I would say that NO they don't have a different barrel for heavier/longer (or larger?) bullets.

You need to keep in mind that no matter what bullet weight from 40 to 80 is used in commercial .223 loads it is loaded to similar pressures thus making the loads safe - just like in the 30-06 that is loaded with bullets from 110 to 220 grains.  So barrel pressure isn't an issue.
What is an issue - and may add some confusion - is that SAAMI .223 Remington chambers (mainly found in bolt-actions) differ from NATO military chamber that virtually all AR15s use.  So military ammo, whether 55-gr M193, or 62-gr M855/SS-109 may have the bullet impinge a bit too much in the .223 SAAMI chamber and cause excessive pressures.  In addition, M193 and M855 with their new brass and crimped-in primers is loaded hotter than SAAMI .223 and this may cause an issue in non-NATO chambers.  However, as mentioned, virtually all AR15s are made for hot military ammo fortunately.  
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