Author Topic: helwan 9mm problems and parts question/ pic heavy  (Read 3818 times)

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steves

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helwan 9mm problems and parts question/ pic heavy
« on: October 06, 2009, 01:59:21 PM »
came across a helwan 9mm today and here is what it is doing maybe someone can give me some suggestions. you can load a round into the chamber and cock it back, it will fire and eject but it loads another but the hammer does not come back also it will not when the trigger is pulled fire again. you physically pull it back it will fire but not by itself also it will not lock back. it wont double action and will slam shut and fire.  any suggestions on this as I would really like to try to fix this gun.  Thanks
 I did find the diagrams and manual on it but it have no idea where to start. and I dont want to totally exchange parts till it is right, also there saw where I can get most parts other then springs for it.
are the beretta 951 parts interchangeable with these or not,? as it is a liscenced version of it. Any help would be great Thanks again, Steve












« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 04:02:22 PM by steves »

Ceddie

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Re: helwan 9mm problems and parts question
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2009, 02:12:10 PM »
what kind of ammo are you using? mine like a HOT round to cycle 100%

can you take some pics?

what kind of shape are the grips in?

I have fiddled a few helwans back from the near dead but I've had to tinker a bit.

Ceddie
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steves

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Re: helwan 9mm problems and parts question
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2009, 02:40:32 PM »
win 115 grain luger 9 mil   great shape   why a pic? it is not for sale as it is a friends of mine we were wondering why it was acting like it does and if anyone had experience with them doing it.

SamStafford

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Re: helwan 9mm problems and parts question
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2009, 02:41:09 PM »
I used to have a Helwan 9mm. I didn't have any problems with mine. Of course, I didn't shoot it that much. It was a nice looking gun.
What? Me worry?

Onepoint

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Re: helwan 9mm problems and parts question
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2009, 02:44:55 PM »
Most of the 951 parts will cross over, but they are harder to find than Helwan parts anymore.

Does the hammer catch when pulled back?  Does the slide lock back manually? Is it rough or very stiff to cycle by hand?  From the sounds of it its short cycling if it does those.  

What do the spent cases look like, any marks, or deformity?

A good picture of the frame inside and slide would help anyone spot something you may have missed.

I have never had trouble with Win white box.  
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Ceddie

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Re: helwan 9mm problems and parts question
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2009, 02:52:26 PM »
win 115 grain luger 9 mil   great shape   why a pic? it is not for sale as it is a friends of mine we were wondering why it was acting like it does and if anyone had experience with them doing it.
So I can look at the pic next to mine and see if I can see any thing that is off.
Alternatively, I can post up a few pics of mine if you think that would help.


Yeah, mine short cycled with some commercial ammo but never the WWB.
I had the same problem with a South American Browning clone and that was where I got the idea to shoot surplus ammo till the springs wore in a bit more.
Ceddie
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steves

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Re: helwan 9mm problems and parts question
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2009, 03:06:59 PM »
Most of the 951 parts will cross over, but they are harder to find than Helwan parts anymore.
Does the hammer catch when pulled back?
no if you pull just it back it will not lock , now it will if you use the slide. it will fire then but the hammer does not stay back in a locked position
Does the slide lock back manually?
yes see above answer
 Is it rough or very stiff to cycle by hand?
no pretty easy to slide back it will when slid back engage the hammer and lock but when cycling it will not stay back, you can fan it and it will fire again but it bite the H--L out of your finger ( just happened to the guy who owns it.) also it will not shoot even after 1 shot even tho there is a round in the chamber, but as stated ( he is sitting watching me write this) you can pull the hammer back and release it and it will fire and eject a round
  From the sounds of it its short cycling if it does those.
I dont think it is short cycling as it does eject the spent round and replaces it with a new round it is that the hammer follows the slide back up but does not fire
What do the spent cases look like, any marks, or deformity? look normal only shot a few of them and found 1 as they were tossed a good 8-10 ft away in the grass

A good picture of the frame inside and slide would help anyone spot something you may have missed.

I have never had trouble with Win white box. 

WGSNewnan

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Re: helwan 9mm problems and parts question
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2009, 03:09:17 PM »
worn hammer and sear maybe?
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steves

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Re: helwan 9mm problems and parts question
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2009, 03:30:06 PM »
will have pic posted in a few have to do the photo barf thing also it seems if you pull back on the slide and release quickly it will not lock back  seems to be  more problems then it is worth as now it sometimes doesnt lock back at all scary!!

magnut

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Re: helwan 9mm problems and parts question/ pic heavy
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2009, 05:30:08 PM »
Be careful with Helwans.  Issues of metalergy are very serious indeed.  I have seen cracked slides, locking blocks fail, bad trigger componts etc.  The grip also are very, very prone to cracking along the backstrap.  They pretty much always crack at some point.  The locking blocks are the worst parts.  There are no replacements and when they are found go into the $75-$100 range.  They are not meant to be shot much.  If you plan on doing a lot of shooting you should chose another pistol.  I have studied up alot on these guns and they are probably one of the worst pistol ever put into military service.  I put them in the same lines as the suicide japanese guns. 

That said I do like them but if you want a budget shooter a Hi-point will even outperform these guns in all aspects.  You really have to know what your doing with Helwans.

Onepoint

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Re: helwan 9mm problems and parts question/ pic heavy
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2009, 07:01:59 PM »
Quote
They pretty much always crack at some point.
Some have some issues, but they all don't crack, I have never seen one yet in person that has, and I owned 3 at one time, still own one.  Had one for 20+years, and shot at least 3k rounds through it including a couple thousand rounds of Egyptian ammo before I read on the internet years later that would certainly blow it up and cause the earth to reverse its rotation. :)

You are right, parts are hard to come by, but you can buy new after market replacement plastic grips, which tend to crack.


They all, as does the original 951 can have issues with the locking blocks breaking, which is why they made it heavier in the 92 series.

Actually the one thing they do better than a hi point is conceal.

Anyway, look for wear on the hammer strut and sear, or if the springs are broken or worn out.
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magnut

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Re: helwan 9mm problems and parts question/ pic heavy
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2009, 08:18:07 PM »
If you got 3000 rounds through it you got one of the good ones.  Stay far far away from the last batch that CAI imported and sold through the big dealers like SOG.  Dont even use parts from those guns as they are the worst of all the Helwans that ever came into the country.

If you can get parts from the old Beretta 951 go for them over helwan parts.  The Berettas were far superior to these guns.  Buy yourself some extra grips as well if you can find a deal on them.  When I do shoot mine I put on a pair of old grips that have a crack.  They will still work and you save yourself A nice set for collecting purposes.

Honestly, I will not own or shoot a new CIA import helwan if that is what you have there (I have seen catostophic failures up close and personal on these).  I would have to see it up close because there a very subtle differences on these guns.  Promag magazines work decently well in these guns.  May need to slightly modify them.

If you get some new grips make sure you fit them correctly or they will crack in short order.

New springs are a good idea.  Make it a rituall to inspect the locking block for cracks. Shoot standard pressure 115 9mm only. Those are my suggestions.  Like I said I am a fan of them but do not recomend them to folks.  There are a couple guns out there I am like that with.

steves

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Re: helwan 9mm problems and parts question/ pic heavy
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2009, 08:39:49 PM »
it is a cia gun as for parts cant find a block anywhere so it looks like a lost cause. may just sit in a safe ,since it is not my gun it is not up to me he is on the list at times so he will see this. thanks

Onepoint

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Re: helwan 9mm problems and parts question/ pic heavy
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2009, 08:58:05 PM »
Interarms Import marks on mine.  I had another with the Maddi stamp that I sold last Dec, and the one before that I couldn't tell you what was on it.

I always amused at the warning about the Egyptian ammo, which was hot, but all down the pipe long before I found out about it.  But I bought the pistol and the ammo together as my 1st semi auto pistol purchase way back when.  I never realized there were issues with them until a few years ago when I started to look them up online.
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magnut

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Re: helwan 9mm problems and parts question/ pic heavy
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2009, 09:07:43 PM »
The interarms ones are pretty good pistols.  Some of the nicest finished ones for sure.  The real issues with the metalergy were not as much of a concern until the latest imports.  They all have issues with the locking blocks though.  Even the Beretta 951 had those issues.