Author Topic: The SKS in WW2...  (Read 4881 times)

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fender44

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The SKS in WW2...
« on: September 25, 2010, 06:37:08 PM »
I have always thought of myself as a WW2 History Buff so I have a question.... i know the SKS Rifle was designed in 1945 and adopted by the Soviets in 1949 but was it ever used in combat against German Forces near the end of the war?? I had a discussion with someone today who said it was used in combat at the end of the war but i thought it never actually went into service until 1949 i look up on the internet and get conflicting info some say yes some say no.....thanks.

FrayAdjacent

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Re: The SKS in WW2...
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2010, 06:46:06 PM »
I had read something that mentioned that experimental versions were used late in the war, likely mid 1945.

The 7.62x39 round was developed in 1943.

From what I read, the experimental versions were well received.  The soldiers using them loved them.  I think it would have been hella slick if they had gotten them out in 1943 or 44.  They probably would have been more crudely produced. 


fender44

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Re: The SKS in WW2...
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2010, 06:48:57 PM »
I had read something that mentioned that experimental versions were used late in the war, likely mid 1945.

The 7.62x39 round was developed in 1943.

From what I read, the experimental versions were well received.  The soldiers using them loved them.  I think it would have been hella slick if they had gotten them out in 1943 or 44.  They probably would have been more crudely produced. 



I was looking on the internet for some old WW2 pics maybe showing them being used by the Russians but no luck.......if they had this Rifle earlier in the War it likely would have resulted in Germany's defeat even sooner.

Prince50

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Re: The SKS in WW2...
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2010, 07:09:06 PM »
It was used in the Belorussian front against the Germans.  That much is documented, but I have never seen pictures of the rifle let alone, the rifle in battle.

D

Here is a quote from the internet.

"Certainly it was a huge improvement over the clumsy bolt-action Mosin and the cranky, unreliable Tokarev. In 1944 a small pre-production batch was sent to the Belorussian front for combat evaluation, to the delight of the troops lucky enough to get them. Reports were glowing, and in 1945 the Samoryadnyi Karabin Simonova was officially adopted by the Red Army as the SKS-45. "
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 12:05:24 AM by Prince50 »
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Devin_Burns

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Re: The SKS in WW2...
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2010, 07:37:22 PM »
In high school we did a project on WWII's eastern front. Someone had a couple of pictures of what looked like an SKS, but it was waaay to big. There was another with a detachable magazine that he said was a soviet take on the M1 Carbine. It didn't look like an SKS, but I keep thinking he said it used 7.62x39.

If we made this post six years ago I'd have a clearer memory and probably not sound like an idiot.
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fender44

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Re: The SKS in WW2...
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2010, 07:50:28 PM »
It was used in the Belorussian front against the Germans.  That much is documented, but I have never seen pictures of the rifle let alone, the rifle in battle.

D

Hee is a quote from the internet.

"Certainly it was a huge improvement over the clumsy bolt-action Mosin and the cranky, unreliable Tokarev. In 1944 a small pre-production batch was sent to the Belorussian front for combat evaluation, to the delight of the troops lucky enough to get them. Reports were glowing, and in 1945 the Samoryadnyi Karabin Simonova was officially adopted by the Red Army as the SKS-45. "

Well...........i guess i will have to admit i was wrong on this one to my buddy.......... :lol: I guess you learn something new everyday thanks for the Info!!

fender44

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Re: The SKS in WW2...
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2010, 07:55:06 PM »
In high school we did a project on WWII's eastern front. Someone had a couple of pictures of what looked like an SKS, but it was waaay to big. There was another with a detachable magazine that he said was a soviet take on the M1 Carbine. It didn't look like an SKS, but I keep thinking he said it used 7.62x39.

If we made this post six years ago I'd have a clearer memory and probably not sound like an idiot.

I always thought the Russians only used the Mosin Nagant until after the war, i was just reading another site where the SKS was inspired
by the German Sturmgewehr 44.

FrayAdjacent

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Re: The SKS in WW2...
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2010, 08:04:27 PM »
In high school we did a project on WWII's eastern front. Someone had a couple of pictures of what looked like an SKS, but it was waaay to big. There was another with a detachable magazine that he said was a soviet take on the M1 Carbine. It didn't look like an SKS, but I keep thinking he said it used 7.62x39.

If we made this post six years ago I'd have a clearer memory and probably not sound like an idiot.

I always thought the Russians only used the Mosin Nagant until after the war, i was just reading another site where the SKS was inspired
by the German Sturmgewehr 44.


The StG 44 and the SKS are entirely different types of weapons, neither influenced by the other. 

The StG is a select-fire rifle capable of using a detachable box magazine which uses an intermediate powered cartridge.

The SKS is a semiautomatic carbine using a fixed 10 round magazine and an intermediate powered cartridge. 

The StG fits the definition of an 'assault rifle', while the SKS is more of a 'battle rifle'. 


I still think it would have been hella cool if the Soviets had the SKS a few years earlier.  I think it would have been a very successful weapon in WWII battles.   It would have been eclipsed by the StG44 if they were introduced in much greater numbers, though. 

I think it was the Soviets who found that in battle, soldiers were more prone to stand up and shoot when they had an automatic weapon than a bolt action rifle.  Something psychological about spraying a ton of lead!   

coopdog

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Re: The SKS in WW2...
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2010, 08:11:40 PM »
I think it was the Soviets who found that in battle, soldiers were more prone to stand up and shoot when they had an automatic weapon than a bolt action rifle.  Something psychological about spraying a ton of lead!   

Yes, in most of the urban block to block fighting the Russians used the PPSH submachine guns to great effect.  The mosin-nagant was obviously not very effective in house to house fighting.  The SKS would have been better, but the drum magazine fed PPSH's were the best for that kind of fighting.  If the Russian infantry units had half SKS's and half PPSH's that would have been a great combo for all kinds of fighting. Snipers could have kept their Mosin-Nagants.
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fender44

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Re: The SKS in WW2...
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2010, 08:21:32 PM »
In high school we did a project on WWII's eastern front. Someone had a couple of pictures of what looked like an SKS, but it was waaay to big. There was another with a detachable magazine that he said was a soviet take on the M1 Carbine. It didn't look like an SKS, but I keep thinking he said it used 7.62x39.

If we made this post six years ago I'd have a clearer memory and probably not sound like an idiot.

I always thought the Russians only used the Mosin Nagant until after the war, i was just reading another site where the SKS was inspired
by the German Sturmgewehr 44.


The StG 44 and the SKS are entirely different types of weapons, neither influenced by the other.  

The StG is a select-fire rifle capable of using a detachable box magazine which uses an intermediate powered cartridge.

The SKS is a semiautomatic carbine using a fixed 10 round magazine and an intermediate powered cartridge.  

The StG fits the definition of an 'assault rifle', while the SKS is more of a 'battle rifle'.  


I still think it would have been hella cool if the Soviets had the SKS a few years earlier.  I think it would have been a very successful weapon in WWII battles.   It would have been eclipsed by the StG44 if they were introduced in much greater numbers, though.  

I think it was the Soviets who found that in battle, soldiers were more prone to stand up and shoot when they had an automatic weapon than a bolt action rifle.  Something psychological about spraying a ton of lead!  

I agree.............i'm sure having an Automatic weapon made the average Russian Soldier feel a bit more secure, i am guessing the same thought was behind the design of the AK as well ...spray a ton of lead and hope for the best.

illuminatus90

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Re: The SKS in WW2...
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2010, 08:23:30 PM »
Quote
In high school we did a project on WWII's eastern front. Someone had a couple of pictures of what looked like an SKS, but it was waaay to big. There was another with a detachable magazine that he said was a soviet take on the M1 Carbine. It didn't look like an SKS, but I keep thinking he said it used 7.62x39.

If we made this post six years ago I'd have a clearer memory and probably not sound like an idiot.

    For me it sounds like you are talking about the SVT-40.. It dose look pretty similar to the sks, and had a 10 round detachable magazine. The caliber of it is 7.62x54. That is my guess what you seen in school, it was a lot more popular then the sks was in WW2.


      I too been told that the sks was used late in the war as a prototype
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chevy1981enfield1943

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Re: The SKS in WW2...
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2010, 08:39:52 PM »
I had read something that mentioned that experimental versions were used late in the war, likely mid 1945.

The 7.62x39 round was developed in 1943.

From what I read, the experimental versions were well received.  The soldiers using them loved them.  I think it would have been hella slick if they had gotten them out in 1943 or 44.  They probably would have been more crudely produced. 


yep, thats what i've read there was something like 500 issued

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Re: The SKS in WW2...
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2010, 08:46:45 PM »
In high school we did a project on WWII's eastern front. Someone had a couple of pictures of what looked like an SKS, but it was waaay to big. There was another with a detachable magazine that he said was a soviet take on the M1 Carbine. It didn't look like an SKS, but I keep thinking he said it used 7.62x39.

If we made this post six years ago I'd have a clearer memory and probably not sound like an idiot.
the huge one was probably a PTRS

makarov

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Re: The SKS in WW2...
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2010, 11:13:11 PM »
Did the sks's that were issued out in late WW2 look exactly like the ones that came out in 1949? Or did the Soviets make a few modifications to them after the war?

It would be cool to know..
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Hillbilly61

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Re: The SKS in WW2...
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2010, 11:46:56 PM »
These were near final prototypes that were field trialed near the end of WWII. The exact numbers produced is unknown, but relatively few as far as gun numbers are concerned. Beyond the very positive reports, feedback concerning the particulars allowed the production version in 1949 to be arrived at. So, in a nutshell, no, these were not exactly the the same SKSs that we use.

On thing that came up during the SKS development is the use of detachable magazines. It was originally intended to have one, but Stalin nixed the idea, as he feared that soldiers would lose them and generally cost a lot of money to keep supplied. So Simonov complied by substituting in a fixed magazine and the stripper clips for quick reloading. The expense of lost strippers was negligible and well known, so Stalin was OK with that. That little bit of history may well have something to do with why current SKSs can be converted to accept detachable magazines today!