Author Topic: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion  (Read 4188 times)

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Mancat

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Re: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2012, 07:44:14 PM »
It is a Saiga .223 but one of the newer ones with standard-spec barrel and dimpled receiver.

I have seen plenty of jigs for pressing blocks on/off, but no alignment jigs. What I did was to put a straightedge against the rear sight block. Checked straightedge against both sides of the barrel with micrometer to ensure it was true. I then adjusted gas block & sight block until spaces on both sides of the blocks measured equally against the straightedge. Managed to find some 3MM drill bits that were 2.8MM, just under the diam. of the factory pins included in my Bulgarian '74 kit. Pins went in nice and tight with a little anti-seize.

RAA/Izhmash confirmed that 5.56 is fine in the Saiga, but I find XM193 to be too hot for casual plinking. Huge fireball (even with brake) and loud as hell.

Mancat

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Re: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2012, 11:31:06 PM »


ranger1968

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Re: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2012, 10:39:35 AM »
 Nice job!

  Mancat, either you're single, or your wife/girlfriend has no sense of smell or taste, what with you using the oven like that. :shock:
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Mancat

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Re: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2012, 11:14:32 AM »
Thanks. Believe me, I do all this sort of crap when she's at work, with all the windows in the house wide open. I don't care if it gets below 60 inside. Actually the smell wasn't too bad and just hung around the kitchen, unlike when I bake cosmoline out - that gets through the whole house.

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Re: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2012, 05:06:35 PM »
Besides, its easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission . :)
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Mancat

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Re: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2012, 04:50:23 PM »
The Duplicolor engine enamel that I used already got chewed up in a couple places during last range session, like where the spent casings smack the dustcover, so.. Not sure if I'm all that impressed. Whatever, I'll run it and see how long it takes to get really ugly. If it only gets beat up in a couple places, I don't really care for now. I can't be painting rifles every weekend.

I am impressed by Duplicolor holding up to solvents though. CLP, Hoppes #9, and Sweet's 7.62 (that stuff is strong), and nothing touched it.


Mancat

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Re: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2012, 04:20:51 PM »
Got a Beryl folder and tried it on. It's nice.



huntinkillin

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Re: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2012, 02:02:02 PM »
Mancat, what kind of groups do you get with that .223 Saiga, and what kind of ammo do you use.

Thanks
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Mancat

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Re: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2012, 05:14:59 PM »
I've never put a scope on it so I can't tell you what sort of groups it's mechanically capable of. 1-2" groups at 100yd are not uncommon for .223 Saigas with the right ammo and a good magnified optic. Shooting with iron sights, it's not much different than my 7.62x39 AKs, with all of which I can usually manage fist-sized groups at 100yd.

As far as ammo goes, it will shoot just about any brass-cased ammo I've fed it. It does NOT like XM193 5.56 NATO, which is loaded very hot and tends to overgas the gun, but I have heard that the gun can be tuned to work with it by swapping in an extra-power recoil spring - sort of similar to adjusting a buffer tube in an AR.

The only problem I had shooting brass ammo with was that when feeding a round, the bottom of the bolt would occasionally bite into the soft brass case of the next round below it, moving it forward in the magazine and causing the gun to feed two rounds at once. This was eliminated by slightly chamfering the leading edge of the bottom of the bolt. It was very sharp compared to three other AK bolts I had to compare to. Since chamfering this edge, I no longer have this problem. By doing this you don't want to remove any material from the face of the bolt or from the bottom of the bolt. You just want to dull the edge slightly so that it doesn't bite into brass cases. Not a very common problem with these guns at all - just my luck I guess.

This problem was also exascerbated by using Beryl mags, which sit quite high in the receiver, but are otherwise excellent quality and fit very tight - in fact they can work without a bullet guide. It may not be a problem with other mags from Promag, SGM, or Tapco. I previously used surplus steel Galil mags, but they sat too low in the receiver to be reliable. Those mags tend to launch bullets at a sharp angle upwards, turning the bullet guide into sort of a launching ramp, rather than a slight assist to guide the bullet towards the chamber.

Steel cased ammo is no problem, and the gun loves Wolf MC and Wolf Polyformance, both 55gr and 62gr. HOWEVER I have had poor luck with Tulammo/Herter's. Many of these are loaded weakly, with cases being routinely out of spec enough to jam in the chamber. This is a pretty common problem with Herter's/Tulammo in other types of .223 rifles as well, so not an isolated AK-specific problem.

Hope this helps.

huntinkillin

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Re: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2012, 06:11:20 PM »
I should have picked one up in .223 when they were on sale for $300 a while ago. She looks really good, so all the mags work ok? Do you know where you can find more?
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Messiah Jones

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Re: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2012, 11:08:34 PM »

 I've had VERY good results with SEM brand Self-Etching Primer and Bumper Coat. They are both satin black and match the original Saiga finish perfectly. The bond that the Self-Etching Primer forms is amazing.

 As far as the baking smell goes, I did several while I lived at my Mom's house, then I promptly moved out.  :)
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Mancat

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Re: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2012, 12:01:01 PM »
I should have picked one up in .223 when they were on sale for $300 a while ago. She looks really good, so all the mags work ok? Do you know where you can find more?

All the Beryl mags work fine. They are available from Robert RTG Gun Parts for $24/ea. They require light filing to snap into the .223. Bulgarian Circle-10 5.56 magazines need the same small amount of filing. I made a video explaining it, as I had a lot of people asking me about it on other forums and on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjP52ZP6vyY

I've also been meaning to try out a Tapco Galil magazine, as they are supposed to fit in the .223 Saiga much better than surplus Galil magazines, and only cost $12-14/ea - so they should make good range/beater mags. Honestly though I am crossing my fingers that Tapco will ditch their ugly magazine mold design for the 5.45 and 5.56 magazines, and make a mold similar to their "smoothside" 7.62 magazines they recently introduced, which look very much like the current issue Russian/Bulgarian/Polish polymer magazines:



IMO Tapco is being dumb by saying that they have "no plans" to produce these magazines in 5.45 and 5.56. There is a huge demand for US-made magazines for these rifles (and ALL AKs), since surplus is drying up, especially for 5.45. Tapco would make a killing if they would stop making ugly magazines, and make ones that actually look good and authentic when used in a classic AK.

huntinkillin

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Re: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2012, 07:58:45 PM »
Mancat, do you think the Beryl mags would work well in a SAR-3? Are Saiga receivers built to the same specs as other .223 AKs?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 09:13:08 PM by huntinkillin »
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Mancat

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Re: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2012, 11:28:20 PM »
I really don't know for sure, because I don't own a SAR-3, BUT...

The Beryl mags almost fit into both of my 7.62x39 Romanians - WASR and AES-10B. If the SAR-3 is anything like other Romanian receivers, the center support pin will be a bit too far forward, and the magazine rubs up against it at the rear when inserting, stopping it just before the catch engages. The pin can be relieved a bit, or a small bit of the back of each magazine feedlip area removed. After that, the Beryl mag should fit in. I would rather relieve the center pin a bit, myself.

Feed height? I have no idea if it's correct for the WASR-3 or SAR-3. I've seen people use Circle-10 magazines with those, which are very similar to Beryl mags, so I would believe it is workable, if not good already.

Galil steel mags will also snap into both Romanian guns, and I have heard that some have had luck feeding them in SAR-3 and WASR-3 rifles.

Mancat

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Re: Saiga .223 "traditional" conversion
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2012, 02:51:57 PM »
Saiga .223 in plum for a bit. Optic is 4x32 Pilad (Russian commercial PSO /w SVD reticule)