First ak build. Looking at hungarian ak63 and amm/amms kits

[ryan 1215]

I have been toying with the idea of building an underfolder and a fixed stock ak for about 5-10 years. In the past I didnt have the time or the funds. I am obviously new to the game and late to the party and thats fine. I want the satisfaction of building myself and if i go the route of bending a flat the "off book" benefit. I of course i have a bunch of questions that i hope AKBLUE can answer since he is the kit build god.

I am looking at these kits:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/909439/military-surplus-ak-47-polish-under-folding-stock-parts-kit-762x39mm
http://whatacountry.com/Combo-AK63D-Hungarian-AMMS-Underfolder-Parts-Kit-and-Barrel.aspx
http://armsofamerica.com/ak63dhungarianakmsunderfolderpartsset762x39-1-1.aspx
http://ak-builder.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=30633

My question is should I get flats and go in with friends to buy a bending jig? Or should i just get nodak spud complete recievers? How hard is it to bend flats in the jig? Is quality on par with the nodak complete? I have heard ita better to get non drilled flats so i can make sure holes go where i want them. I will be goin rivet over screw build, Also what problems would i run into if i had a no serial homemade ak in my vehicle and got pulled over for speeding? Last question: could i still build one underfolder and a fixed off of these kits if i order fixed stock trunions for the one kit which are options on a few of the sites listed. I know this will take a bunch of time and work, at the very least i want to get the parts kits soon before they become really really hard to find. I just want to make sure i get right ones for my plans as stated. All advice very much appreciated unless is to give up which I will not do.

[AKBLUE]

The .05 cent answer...,
The AKBuilder populated barrel kit with $10 upgrade to nitride is a good option in terms of reducing the amount of tooling you need.  You could get two of them and sell off the underfolder assembly & trunnion off pne for about $75-$85 and buy a fixed stock rear block/trunnion and buttstock.

Bending a flat is OK but by the time you buy the bending fixture., spot weld the rails and drill the holes and install the center support it is a lot more build time & skill.
A bent flat is not heat treated.  This can be done but not as easy at home.
Atlantic firearms sells some decent discounted receiver.  Worth a look.  Nodak Spud is good to go.

Reviewing detailed build instructions is a precursor to building to determine if you have the shop skills and even the basic tools to proceed.
A local builder or build party is the ideal if you are shop skilled etc.

[ryan 1215]

After a similar post on a firearm forum for my home state i have decided to go through akbuilder for both hungarians. I like your idea to order 2 underfolders and sell the second folding stock and rear trunnion to pay for a fixed rear trunnion. After i have secured both parts kits i will then order nodak recievers for both. You mention the nitride finished barrel, i was gonna go chrome lined just like my norinco sks as i have put A LOT of rounds down the pipe without any noticeable wear. Is there an advantage to nitride over chrome lined? I dont personally own all of the shop tools but i know several ppl that do and a few more that have access to shop tools (mechanics at private shops that I know the owners well and they are very pro 2a). I am moderately skilled at use of shop tools, drill press and shop press, i am by no means an engineer but i work on my jee quite a bit and i can research anything to do it right I dont have to rush the build.  I have the grinder and dremel for all the prep work. I just want to get the parts kits and have a plan before parts kits dry up. I wish i could find a build party but they are very few and far between in the northeast from what i have seen. Thanks for the reply and the advice.

[ryan 1215]

Pulled the trigger and ordered the first hungarian underfolder kit. Should be here in about 5 days. I will obviouslly be doing the demill first on the kit and getting the old rivets out of the kit. I have been researching the tools that i could use to install the rivets on this build. I notice that many have used the 12 ton shop press, drill press, rivet jig, trigger guard rivet jig, rivet crusher jaws for bolt cutter, and barrel press kit. Do i need all of these tools? I have seen posts about homemade tools. I only plan on building 2 rifles so i dont know if i want to drop 5-600 on specialized tools for them. Are there any other options?

[AKBLUE]

It takes a variety of tools to crush rivets.
A brief on the work-arounds are>>>

Purchase a 24" bolt cutter from Harbor freight and grind the jaws for crushing.

Creale several "bucking" plates.  These are 3.16" +/- thick 1 inch metal squares with dimples formed in them with drill and Dremel stone.  They are used to form the rivet shop head. These are used in conjunction with the bolt cutter crusher and in a large shop vise to crush the long or through rivets.

Create a bucking punch by divoting the face of a 5/16" pin punch.  This used in a vise placed dimpled face up and the rivets in the trigger guard are set by placing each rivet down on the divoted punch face and then using a similar flat face punch to hammer set the rivets from inside the receiver.

These are in lieu of several hundred dollars worth of jigs.

Removing and installing a barrel without a press is a bit different.  But there are threaded rod methods.  Google and there are relatively inexpensive jigs for the ends of the rod that can be purchased.

Google and U-tube are your friend. You need to do a lot of research etc.

[zoom6zoom]

nitride is harder than chrome, and may also be more accurate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS8WK0TioPM

[ryan 1215]

I ordered a chrome lined for this first underfolder build. I may considering ordering the nitrided barrel for the second kit that i will be building as a fixed stock in the future.

[AKBLUE]

Your inbox is full>>

The bolt cutter jaws are ne of the easiest to fab.
There are drawings and diagrams on the www.  You have to research and learn as I noted.
The stickies on the AK sites and Google.  AKFILES is a better build site than AKFORUM.  AKFORUM is more collectors.
I do not have the dimensions nor does Toth share those but other types are around or can be fabbed just by appearance.  If he has shop vises etc., that can work for crushing rivets as I described.  Search and ye shall find.
I have built about 65 AK's and only purchased one or two tools.  But I never used blueprints to make them either. I mainly use the basic stuff as it works for me. Good Luck
Example of a Google search for bolt cutter rivet crushing tools>> You must sort through it and the pictures and/or video selection etc., and on and on.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Bolt+cutter+rivet+crushing+jaws+diagram
Mike

[ryan 1215]

I def will get the bolt cutter rivet crushers. I am still up in the air about buying all of the riveting tools. Really worst case scenario if my friend cant build it from sight i will just order the other parts kitand reciever first then order the rivet jigs as i doubt they will dry up like kits and recievers. If i have to buy all the toth tools it will only prolong the time it takes me to finish the builds.

Ps I purged ny inbox:only had 8 messages and it was full. ?

[LESchwartz]

nitride is harder than chrome, and may also be more accurate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS8WK0TioPM

I watched the video, one thing I missed is if black nitride is better than chrome for resisting the effects of corrosive ammo.

Any ideas?

Larry

[Onepoint]

I don't know if its noticeably better to the user, but it is applied both in and out and not just the bore so presumably you would not have issues at the bore ends. It would really be beneficial if the muzzle device and bolt were all also nitrided.

[LESchwartz]

It would really be beneficial if the muzzle device and bolt were all also nitrided.

Roger that . . . I once neglected to clean the inside of the US-made muzzle brake one my Saiga IZ-340 conversion after shooting Russian 7N6 -- what a mess!  Later I found out the US-made bullet guide also needs special attention.

Larry

[Onepoint]

I had the same on a 5.45 AR upper with A2 flashhider, even though I rinsed it off well, it still started to rust in the sharp corners of the slots.  So now I make dang sure I brush it.

[Mikeym_us]

Toth Tools makes the rivet crusher jaws for the harbor freight bolt cutters.
http://www.tothtool.com/Rivet-Jaws-for-24-Bolt-Cutters_p_10.html

It takes a variety of tools to crush rivets.
A brief on the work-arounds are>>>

Purchase a 24" bolt cutter from Harbor freight and grind the jaws for crushing.

Creale several "bucking" plates.  These are 3.16" +/- thick 1 inch metal squares with dimples formed in them with drill and Dremel stone.  They are used to form the rivet shop head. These are used in conjunction with the bolt cutter crusher and in a large shop vise to crush the long or through rivets.

Create a bucking punch by divoting the face of a 5/16" pin punch.  This used in a vise placed dimpled face up and the rivets in the trigger guard are set by placing each rivet down on the divoted punch face and then using a similar flat face punch to hammer set the rivets from inside the receiver.

These are in lieu of several hundred dollars worth of jigs.

Removing and installing a barrel without a press is a bit different.  But there are threaded rod methods.  Google and there are relatively inexpensive jigs for the ends of the rod that can be purchased.

Google and U-tube are your friend. You need to do a lot of research etc.

[AKBLUE]

Toth Tools makes the rivet crusher jaws for the harbor freight bolt cutters.
http://www.tothtool.com/Rivet-Jaws-for-24-Bolt-Cutters_p_10.html

It takes a variety of tools to crush rivets.
A brief on the work-arounds are>>>

Purchase a 24" bolt cutter from Harbor freight and grind the jaws for crushing.

Creale several "bucking" plates.  These are 3.16" +/- thick 1 inch metal squares with dimples formed in them with drill and Dremel stone.  They are used to form the rivet shop head. These are used in conjunction with the bolt cutter crusher and in a large shop vise to crush the long or through rivets.

Create a bucking punch by divoting the face of a 5/16" pin punch.  This used in a vise placed dimpled face up and the rivets in the trigger guard are set by placing each rivet down on the divoted punch face and then using a similar flat face punch to hammer set the rivets from inside the receiver.

These are in lieu of several hundred dollars worth of jigs.

Removing and installing a barrel without a press is a bit different.  But there are threaded rod methods.  Google and there are relatively inexpensive jigs for the ends of the rod that can be purchased.

Google and U-tube are your friend. You need to do a lot of research etc.

Yes., already noted but for $18 you buy the bolt cutter at Harbor Freight and mod it yourself vs the $65 for the Toth jaws.  There are hundreds of pages on the www and U-tube videos on building, making tools and alternative build techniques.  The off the shelf tools are relatively new.  Recognizing everyone cannot make all the tools but there are ways to create adequate ones and other methods vs the $300-$500 in tool cost etc.